http://www.fepl.ca/localhistory/files/original/ba79be9c9c250d5db5efb1043f77c0fe.pdf 4da11c71950620033b4096cf269d2e84 PDF Text Text This is Rose Hearn interviewing Mr. Del Davidson Fort Erie, Ontario, and the date is July 4th, 61 Princess Street 1985. R.H: fli Del, how are you ? D.D: I'm feeling pret ty good this morning on a beautiful day like this. R.H: Could you give me the date of your birth please? D.D: Yes I was born in 1922 in a the lit tle town of Bridgeburg ah Courtwright ..•. Street, two doors up from the .•.. oh liquid veneer they used to call it in those days, it was a factory were they made some paint. R.H: What school did you at tend ? D.D: I went to what they call Phipps S t reet School which later changed it's name to Rose Seaton, and then I attended the Fort Erie High School which of course is now the Fort Erie Secondary School, and then I went to...well I was in grade 11 when I dropped out and went to work for 25 years, and worked at Fleet Aircraft for 7 years then I went on the railway for 37 years. R.H: What was it like going to school then? D.D: I can tell you because I went both then and now, I went back to school in 1970 to Brock, and to Fort Erie High School. I went to Fort Erie High School and got grade 1 3, a couple of grade 13 subjects then I went to Brock. I would say there's not too much change in the school as far as the young, the real young student is concerned. You'd have to leave home and go a distance .••. the only difference is now they're bussed ...we had no buses. R.H: Yeah, I was going to ask you. How did you get there? D.D: We walked. R.H: What about winter time, was it rough ? D.D: No, they kept the streets pre t t y well ploughed in the winter t ime I think they did a fan t astic job, t he ploughing of t he streets for the kids to go to school, I t hink t hey still do. R.H: How far did you have to walk ? D.D: Ah ••• we lived on Phipps Street, but when we were going to school we lived on Dufferin S treet which is only five-six blocks from the five or six blocks away from the school. I think that we had very dedicated teachers in t hose days, they wanted you to learn. know if I got a strapping ••• You they used to use a strap in those days I don't kno w whether it was a good t hing or not, but it seemed to ( 1) �, another strap. went home you got The teachers and the parents were working together, perhaps you don't see that quite so much now as they did in those days it's sorta if you put your hand on my child why the parents are down there wanting to know why. some of the teachers are not •.. I think not so conscious of what their responsibility the real responsibilities.are now as they were in those days they don't. R.H: .• we never got the strap unless we really needed it. And what about the neighbourhood, what was that like whenyou were growing up, do you remember any stores you used to frequent? D.D: Yeah Putneys store, I lived up in Phipps Street after I became old enough to be a member there, more . . . I remember things quite well. When I was only about 2 years old we lived on Courtwright Street and I remember the Presbyterian Church burned down and it was now were the bowli ng is on Courtwright Street. It started out,and I guess the caretaker went in to light the gas and he turned it on and he didn't have a match or something, and he went and got a match and came back and it blew up, and I guess it blew him out too. ( R.H: Was he h ur t? D.D: He was hurt...he was injured. R.H: Very badly? D.D: Sure. R.H: Do you remember his name? D.D: I don't remember his name ... no, but I do know that the Presbyterian I don't think he died, but he was injured. Church and another building in the corner of Klauck Street ..• R.H: And did you go to this church? D.D: Yeah, I attended that church with my mother, I was two years old . R.H: Where did you go after it was burned do wn? did you attend this church? Do you remember which one you went to when it was burned do wn? D.D: I'm not too sure ••• we attended when they built it back up again. It didn't take too long to build it back up again, but I think they rebuilt in a different location. R.H: What other places did you go as a child ? D.D: From there we went over to Emerick Ave., I should say. place we moved to was Emerick Ave ••• The next Green Gables they called it, and I don't remember too much about that except one thing that happened. When I was about four, and my sister she was about (2) �2, and I was afraid of the dark, and I had to go upstairs in this big huge big house and ah my dad says go on up stairs. I said ah well ..• l'll just have someone to go upstairs with me so my sisters only 2 she says I'll go up with you I'm not afraid of the dark so unbeknownst to anybody I grabbed a hammer, a little mallet from my tinkers toy and went upstairs and when I came back do wn I went up to the washroom you know . . . I came back do wn again, my dad wa's'Md1ng round behind the bannister and he jumped out and he said boo. Just as he said boo like that I came down with the wooden mallet on the top of his head .•. cut his head all open.. .oh boy ...he turned around and walked back and I said what's the matter Tommy . ..he says nothing. The blood was all coming down his forehead, I thought he was gonna kill me. He didn't give me a licking or anything. At least it's something I can remember on Emerick Ave., but we went to a...we went to the... yeah they moved the church over on Highland. R.H: D.D : Yeah, it was Highland. R.H: { On Highland? What kind of games did you get involved in, like street games? D.D: Well we used to play hide and seek most of the time. We used to play a game called...with a little stick, it was a taped at both ends you hit the one end, knock it, then we had a hoop with a roll on it. Ah...we had our first car on Emerick Ave., it was an old grey Dort. R.H: What's the name? D.D: Grey Dort. Looks like a big bathtub with wheels on it, and I remember one time Billy •.• Billy Heckman we were playing in the garage and this car you know, we were pretending we were driving it, we were almost four about four years old, five years old, and Billy got in front of it and a young lad he came over and he wanted to steer the car, and he stepped on the starter and it was in gear pushed ••• Billy up against the door of the garage and boy we had an awful time getting him off the starter. The air was all knocked out of him and the big wheels were spinning around, I remember that. I remember my dad coming home one time after he'd been out a little bit too much to drink in the car came home .•• ••• had there were t wo driveways Mr. Dietenbeck lived next door and the t wo driveways were side by side, but there's a hedge up the middle and he got one wheel on Mr. Dietenbeck's driveway, and one on ours and drove (3) �right up the hedge. There was quite a big todo about that. But quite a lot of memories of the old days. ( R.H: What about, did you earn any pocket money as a kid doing odd jobs? D.D: Ah... well yes when we moved from ••• moved from there up to Phipps street. R.H: You moved a lot didn't you? D.D: Yes we did. My dad used to buy a house and sell it and move to another house and he moved from ••• actually we moved from there to Belleville, and when we came back from Belleville we moved to Phipps Street. R.H: Do you remember what year that was? D.D: Well I was in first primer so that would probably be about twenty six or seven, somewhere in there. and ah ••• And we moved up to Phipps Street oh occasionally I was old enough then I guess to do the odd shovelling, a bit of shovelling the snow. Money in those days, the t wenty sevens and on up during the depression it just wasn't to be seen R.H: . •. wasn't to be found anyplace. So you didn't get any pocket money at all, did you get paid for shovelling snow? ( D.D: Well I usually just shovelled my o wn. R.H: Your o wn driveway. D.D: No, we never seen any money, nobody had any money. R.H: What about some of the stores? There was no work in any of the stores? D.D: Oh heavens no. Putney had a store up on Robinson Street just up from us and we used to go there. money. My dad would give us some spending You know he'd give us an allowance could buy a lot for 5 •.. about 2 cents, you cents in those days. R.H: What did you buy, can you remember? D.D: Well I used to like ••• used to like black liquorice, that's about the only candy I ever ate. s weet, but .•• I never used to like chocolate bars or anything oh that's about the only thing I used to buy is just some liquorice or ice-cream once in a while. R.H: Did you go go Crystal Beach? D.D: We went to Erie Beach when we were real young, I don't think Crystal Beach was open really yet. ( R.H: So Erie Beach was were you went, what was it like there? D.D: Well when you first went in the parkway there was a ..• ,(4) there was �a cage where the animals were in ••• all the monkeys and the animals and so forth and you went around that and so wn and you went past all the different sort of booths that had the firing ranges and so forth the 22 target ranges or whatever Then we had the ..• the guns they had there. ••• they had these rides, they had one big ride it almost went out looked like you were going to be thrown off out into the lake. R.H: And what was that called, do you remember? D.D: No R.H: Was there a ride called the razzle dazzle? D.D: I was just a little wee kid at that time I guess I wouldn't be any the cyclone, l'don't know I could ger rides mixed up. .•. more than 6 years old or so, but I do remember the big candy, cotton candy that's the first place I ever seen it, I remember that and some of the now I'll tell you another thing I remember quite vividly ••• at Erie Beach. They had a tank there, and they high divers that dove off a huge high platform and of course when you are a little kid it looks t wice as high.in, fact you knowwand when they put this belt around and they'd light it on fire before they dove and the fire ( went through the air. I remember that quite vividly at Erie Beach, and of course the Sandfly R.H: ••• Yeah, how did you get to Erie Beach, how did you travel to Erie Beach? D.D: My dad always had the car. R.H: But do you kno w if anybody else got there in another way? D.D: Well they had horses and wagons and things like that, horse an'd buggy in the old days. My grandfather had a Democrat, and a horse he called Old Rock, he was up in the ••• In his place at that time, you know where tne rmvaccaine or Novadel, Novadel I guess it is .•. is a factory up near the railway tracks on the Garrison Road, well my grandfather Golding, his house was there, that's where he had all his family and his little farm and so forth back in there and all that land was his. He had ten girls and 2 boys i� that little house and how they ever fit in there I don't know, but he raised his family there. He had his big barn there and his horses and his Democrat, and he used to go down there using that. R.H: And was there other transportation to Erie Beach though, like for everybody? D.D: I don't remember whether they had a boat coming over, I think (5) �have a dock down there, but I don't remember that boat. They did have a swimming pool, I remember the swimming pool out in the •.• right in the lake. They had concreted the floor of the lake concreted the floor, how they got the concrete on the floor of the lake is a that's quite a feat putting concrete under the water, but .•• they had a real nice big swimming pool right near in the lake then they had the big dance hall that went out ••• went over the water. I expect they had a boat from Buffalo that came over across there, but I don't now if Percy Sexsmith were still alive, he just died this •.. year, he's the fellow you should have gotten. R.H: D.D: He just passed away did he? Yes, he was the immigration man for that he used to tell us by ••. the hour for oh about these things, his experiences ••• ••• that was in Crystal Beach he was most interested in. That's all I remember about Erie Beach. R.H: So what about Crystal Beach, do you remember anything about Crystal Beach the amusement park? D.D: R.H: ( Yeah, we used to go up there all the time. How old would you be, like when you went up there? R.H: I worked up there when I was fifteen, yeah I worked for Jack Millington in his ice-cream parlour. R.H: And what was the wages like then? D.D: I think I got at 11:00 75 cents a day 75 .•• cents a day, and I started at .•• in the morning, and I worked till a day, and I got I think it was 11:00 at night. 12 I started hours cents or a dollar. It was a very 75 very small amount. R.H: How old were you? D.D: Fifteen. And I used to serve the cook the hamburgers and you •.. know, make the sandwiches and things like that and working that hard, and one day he told me I had to wash the dish cloths, and the dish towels so I told him I quit. I wouldn't do it anymore it was too much, that was putting too much on me.It was a lot of work, I washed the dishes, and did the cooking, served the people, and so forth and then ..• I mean working twelve hours a day I just went •.. I just went to the place I was boarding at out there and I went to sleep, I think I paid { R.H: 3 dollars a week board. So you boarded up there, do you remember who owned the boarding house? ( 6) �R.H: Where was the house? D.D: It was on Derby Circle, Derby Road Circle up there, that c ircle goes around and it was on right on the where Jack Millington's house . .• you come off of that road eh resta\.l rant was, and you went .•. around I think one or t wo streets and there was this big yellow house there, I don't even kno w if it is still there. The Post Office is there now. I don't kno w but it was that house there. R.H: So you did board there for a week like each? D.D: No, I boarded there for a...I think it was 3 weeks in the summer when I was working for Jack Millington. I think I was getting something like 12 dollars a week or something like that and gave her 3 dollars a week for board. R.H: Did you get a chance to go on any of the rides there? D.D: No, never got out of the bed...bed and work, that's about all I did there until after...of course I quit. But after that we used to go up as kids, like a group of... I'd have a girlfriend and a bunch of other fellows with their girls, and we'd all go up and we'd go on the Tunnel of Love and we'd go on the caterpillar and some of those rides like ( that. R.H: Was there a Ferris Wheel? D.D: Ferris Wheel? Yeah, I went on the Ferris Wheel a couple of times, but I wasn't too taken up with that sorta thing. R.H: And when did you start working for the railroad Del? D.D: 1947. R.H: How many years did you work there? D.D: 37 R.H: What was your occupation then? D.D: I went on as a fireman, firing the steam engines, and the Started working for the railroad in 1947, January 31st. years. . Shovelling coal it was the steam at that time. .•• yes the stokers were coming in pretty good then we had probably half and half, steam and stokers, maybe less than half of shovelling the steam without the stokers because stokers were pretty rough too, if they broke down you'd have to shovel over top of them. Coal some ••• say the good old days, but by golly I don't know, when the deisels came in they were pretty good days. R.H: So it was very hard work? D.D: Oh it was terrible. We went do wn in to Hamilton •• . (7) Hamilton •• . you �and sweat came out the blood and the sweat would come out together .•. and it would stick to my socks, and it would stick to my heel, and when I got over to Toronto I had to put my feet in a my socks off so I could get them off. ••• sit and soak Many times in the summertime I had to do that. R.H: Was the pay good though, was the pay very good? D.D: Well it was better than anything else in and anyone without an •.• education was lucky to get a job like that. My dad was an engineer on the railway, and through him I was able to get a job ah .. .I didn't ••. go in and mention it, but of course it's a known thing how you're Tommy Davidson's son and how you file for exams, so they gave it to me, and my son of course, he's an engineer on the railway now and it seems that if your family's in there you seem to have a better chance to get in. If you ah . •. if you're in that business, same here with your job, you're in the library business, I'm not in the library, we were both interviewed and you got the job. a sorta sort of a thing that happens. •.. but I didn't like it. ( It's Yeah, the pay was alright I don't like being tortured. Anybody doesn't like being tortured. R.H: So you didn't like the job? D.D: I didn't care for the R.H: The job itself? D.D: The job? . ..• no I didn't care for it at all. I had to do it because I had a wife and family, and we were trying to keep them together here in Fort Erie, but had I finished school I would've had a better chance of getting a better job. R.H: So what grade did you get to then? D.D: Oh I got to eleven, I quit in eleven. R.H: Eleven ? D.D: I quit in eleven, but in 1970 then on the railway I went back to school again and I got a couple of grade 13 subjects, and went back to University, Brock University and graduated from there. in Physchology. Got a B.A. No w I'm pensioned off I can go or so whatever I want. R.H: Getting back to the railway, do you kno w anything about the Pegleg railroad ? D.D: The Pegleg railroad was a railway that went along from ••• (8) it was �cli1 u12 vv d)l up Cu .c uL'• ..wr1e, a.1ong lf1c: Ud.�l\.••• u you. gu ue1u11u. i"�1agara Christian College you'll see the railbed back there yet, and it went along the back through there ... the old station .•• you know one of the old stations or the old places down there by a Creek. There is a picture in one of these books of the Pegleg railway, and that was the railway then now I don't remember that railway myself, and I don't remember the trains going back and forth there, but I guess it was in our time. But yes that was the railway that went down Ridgeway and it went right up... I'm not sure whether it just went to Fort Erie or whether it went on further. I think there's an account in one of my books here of the Pegleg railroad. R.H: What about the Grand Trunk? D.D: The Grand Trunk was a railway that they eventually amalgamated the Grand Trunk, and some other railroads amalgamated to form the Canadian National Railway. The Grand Trunk was the first one, my dad started on that...this is his ...he started on the railway in nineteen hundred and..... R.H: ( Your father did? D.D: Yeah, I think it was nineteen hundred and seven or three or seven or something like that, he started on the railway, had forty to forty five years on the railway. But this is his certificate. I'm keeping that, I have my own certificate, and when my son gets his we are going to get them mounted together, but ah •.... R.H: What about the Sandfly special, do you know anything at all? D.D: The Sandfly special was that little railway ..! understand it was, . but now I can't remember you know first handedly but it was the one that ran from .•• the Ferry boat where Agrette's store is down ••• there. It ran from the Ferry boat up to Erie Beach so the people caught the Ferry boat up to Erie Beach. That's probably what you were referring to when you said any other transportation, yeah that was the Sandfly special that went up there by the rail from Erie Beach so ••• I remember one time when my dad went on one of his sprees, and got a little too much to drink and the people were all waiting to go, and he went over and got on and drove them all up to Erie Beach when the engineer was some place else. of stole the engine, and took it up there. He sort He took the people up there, I guess it was quite a todo about that, but he he didn't get ••• into too much trouble over that incident. (9) They pretty well know �R.H: Did you know anything about the smuggling that went on during prohibition at all, did you hear any stories? D.D: Yes I heard an interesting story one time. It was during prohibition when they couldn't have any kind of whiskey over in the States but they could come over and buy it and take over if they didn't' get caught. That was called smuggling. B ut one day there was a group of fellows over in ah .. . this was ah. . . within our family so I can't mention too many names, but any way one of my uncles was over there, and somebody in the group said "I can go over and buy a bottle of Canadian Club right in Fort Erie bring it right back through customs and declare it, and I"ll bring it over and they... well they said he was crazy...he can't do that, so he made them all a bet. They all bet good high money. They put a bet on that one because there's no way he could declare that. So he came over, and two of them came over with him to be sure he was gonna do what he was told ... what he said he was gonna do . So they came over and had a few drinks over here and they went down to the liquor store and they bought this bottle of Canadian Club...said alright, so he put it down in his shirt, under his belt, put his coat over it, he ran over to the...to the immigration ... to the customs on the other side. He said "do you have anything to declare? " he said "yes I've got a bottle of Canadian Club right here" he says patting his stomache. "Well" he says "get going" he says, he kept patting his stomache. Well the guy thought he had drank it, and he took it right through, so he won the bet. I thought that was kinda of cute. R.H: How much was the bet for? D.D: Oh I have- no idea, but in those days a dollar was quite a bit. It was like a hundred dollars now a days. a story. So that was quite Another story that my uncle told me. was quite a bit in this smuggling deal. He was ••• he There was a fellow took a load of manure, horse and wagon full of manure piled right up across the bridge. . . and ah. . . the customs man said "take it off there, unload it, we gotta see what's under there." So they unload it, the whole thing right there at the customs ( 10) �and he says "there's nothing under there " so he says "ok, load ( her up, take it away. " He says "no, we unloaded it, we're too tired, we can't load it up, you fellows have to load it up. " He says "we're not loading it up. " He says "okay, it stays right here then, " but of course the smell of that ... wouldn't allow it to stay there so they had to get out and the customs men all had to load it right up. So he took it away, came back to go through with another load on the way "where do you want us to put this. " that stuff, take it outa here. " he says He says "get going with He had 28 cases of beer underneath that load ... second load you see. going on. ••. So there was a lot of smuggling There was a lot of different ways of getting it across the border I guess. R.H: Did you ever go to the dancing at Crystal Beach Ballroom? D.D: No, I don't dance, I never danced. in dancing. I never even got too interested I did a lot of swimming most of the time. R.H: Where did you swim? D.D: I swam every place there was water deep enough to swim ( in. I swam up in Erie Beach, I swam in the river here, and all along there I was a lifeguard ... along here for some thirty years. I taught three generations of people here how to swim. R.H: What about down in the blvd. there where they all swam, is that the baby-hole? D.D: Where, down here in the Southend? wos a guard down there. in 1940 .•. in the forties. it's the baby-hole yeah ••• They had quite a deal down there Sometime when the people ••• the young punks from Busti Ave. were coming over and they were making it so miserable for our kids around this area they couldn't go swimming there. R.H: What about the stores then, do you remember the Sullivan's? D.D: Charlie Sullivan had his fish and chip store down there and eh ••• 25cents for fish and chips in those days, and he used to sell chips out the back to people that were swimming and so forth. R.H: You could go inside and eat too though? D.D: You could if you were properly dressed. you to go in with your bathing suit. (11) He wouldn't allow I �R.H: No bare-feet? D.D: No bare-feet, no ( ••• you had to be.. . you know reasonably dressed to go in, before he would allow you yo go in. That was a long time ago too. R.H: What about. . . do you remember any of the ferry boats. we used to go over the •.• Flynn. She lived Yeah, I had a girlfriend over there, Pat on Herkimer I think it was, and her dad had a grocery store so I went over on the ferry boat quite a lot. It was a nickel to go over on the ferry boat. The New Orleans, The City of Toledo, those were two of the ferry boats that went over there. R.H: Where did they dock over there? D.D: Over on the other side? if i'm not mistaken. those docks I think are still intact They docked over there where the lift bridge is on the Canal on the other side. Used to flow right up and then come right back in and then the front of the ferry boat would come down and you'd drive your car off, the thing would go down and you'd walk off the top... you'd be on the top eh. . . the one, the one here. ( The one story about the ferry boat I think I was talking to you about, it was just the time they had the funeral up at eh ..• up in Greenwood ...they were having a burial up at Greenwood and the funeral was coming from where there's now Davidson's funeral home, it was Atwood's in those days and eh ... I think it was James ... John. T. James funeral home before that if I'm not mistaken. !. . . don't quote me on that, but I think it was James then Atwood's funeral home and then these people all lined up in a funeral procession and they were going down Wintemute Street, and they they turned down Niagara Blvd., and they're doing this funeral procession, and they're gonna turn up Gilmore Rd... well about. . . somebody came along and ... but it wasn't in the procession, and got their car in. . . in the procession. The people all turned up Gilmore Rd. to go to the funeral but this fellow's involved .in the funeral so he kept going straight and the one's that were behind him followed him, and what he wanted to do was to go on the ferry boat so ( he went down around, and they had quite eh... quite a pathway (12) �which went down and way out around just to go down to the ferry you had to take eh ••• a bi t of a curve so he went down and all these cars from the funeral went down under the ferry eh R.H: D.D: •.• entrance way . Kind of like the Pied Piper? Yeah, here all these people wanna go to the funeral, now they're going to the ferry so that was quite eh ••• was way back in about 37 or so maybe the old cars to in those days. That was there where Louie Ziff is now. quite an experience that 32 ••• even but so ..• you imagine that was a drug store down That used to be a.drugstore. R.H: Do you remember the name of the drugstore?·· D.D: Well, the last name .• . it was ••• I'm trying to think of the old fellow that had it, that funny? •\ ; The original fellow ... the lastname was eh The names escap e me so now. ..• she knows the names of all those. ••• oh gosh ••• isn't eh I wish Lois was here She could tell you the names of the original old fellow who owned that •• that's when old Dr. Douglas was around. R.H: Dr. Douglas? D.D: Dr. Douglas of course was the doctor that started the hospital. This guy was a druggest when he was here. This old drugstore ... R.H: This was on Jarvis Street? D.D: No, down here where the ferry boats... where Louie Ziff is. R.H: Oh! it's down there? D.D: Louis Ziff is down there, yeah. And there was a drugstore there. But I cannot remember the names of those two, it'll come to me though. R.H: How long were the Chinese s tores there, were they always there? D.D: No, no they weren't always there. was a Chinese laundry there once. on Jarvis Street eh There was some there ... there Charlie Pong had a laundry up right in there the place where they sell electronic .•• things in there now. Where that big television disc is. Well anyway there was a Chinese laundry, Charlie Pong, then there was an allyway that you went through then there was •. • Everett's Dairy was right there. R.H: The dairy? D.D: Everett's Dairy yeah, and next to Everett's Dairy was Madeline Morningstar's Photo Shop in there, and next to it Morningstar's I think wa.s Mullet's grocery store . •• •.• (13) to eh •.. Madeline Mullet's grocery. �store and next to Mullet's was Roy Le Zeur's Barber Shop. R.H: ( So D.D: We went to Mullet's quite a bit yeah way back in the depression is that where you did your shopping, Mullet's ? days, the nineteen thirties. R.H: Was there a local butcher? D.D: Yeah, Roy Fretz, Roy Fretz was on the other side of Charlie Pong's place. There was ••• Freddy White had a store up there, he had a little bit of a butcher shop and a grocery store there. We used to go to Freddy White's and then up a little ways further that was that was Roy Fretz. later • .• He was a good butcher. later on they ah •.. Then quite a while these other people came in and the guy who's with Louis Ziff? ..• •.. ah who's What's his name? I should know those people, I've known them since they were this high. came in and started a grocery store. But they I think they took over from Roy Fretz, and then they moved up across from the paper. Well that paper, that was downtown here too. R.H: D.D: The newspaper yeah, that's when ah R.H: ( The newpaper? Was i t always called The Times Review? D.D: It was the Times Review but eh •.. ••• people who had that. I'm just trying to remember the Now If I had more time I could get all the stuff written down on notes for you. R.H: How often did the paper come out? D.D: Once a week. R.H: The same? D.D: Yeah. R.H: Do you remember how much it cost at all? D.D: A nickel I think it was. R.H: A nickel? D.D: It was a nickel, always a nickel. R.H: Did they have delivery boys or did they deliver it like they do now, like pick it up? D.D: I think you could subscribe to it by mail, but I think you had to pick it up R.H: in the different paper stalls. So anyway when you left the railroad you mentioned that you went to Brock? ( D.D: I went to Brock when I was working on the railway. in 1983, December 1983. I went to Brock in (14) 1970. I left the railway �R.H: Did you get involved in teaching? D.D: Yeah I taught at Niagara Christian College, I taught in Fort Erie J High School, and I taught the perceptionally handicapped for a period of seven years. fulltime . .• I taught school while I was working on the railway I taught school full-time ••• same, R.H: What did you teach? D.D: Physical Education. Both boys and girls. and I taught grade guidance, and health. R.H: 9 Coached all our teams, And did you find that when you were on the teaching side of it that by that time there was more equipment available, like since you were a kid, as far as sports equipment? D.D: Oh yes, there was a ••. well it's a funny thing you know, there's more equipment available, but the money wasn't there to buy it so actually I was better equipped when I was going to school then when I was teaching because we had more equipment then than the kids had and we were instrumental in getting a lot of equipment for them; Getting things together for money-raising activities and we did get some pummel horses, and bar ••. parallel bars ••• that sorta thing we had when I was going to school that they didn't have at the":no ( even when I •.. even now I'm still on the supply teacher's list now; I go out and teach occasionally. The equipment now ... yes as far as sports equipment in football and those different field games and so forth, yes there's more equipment available for that, but as far as gym equipment is concerned I think it's pretty basic and ah ... they took the swimming pool, the swimming pool was ... when I was going to school it wasn't available though it is available now. We took the handicapped children down to the swimming pool, the perceptionally handicapped and eh ... NCC we had to wait for them in the wintertime down at the pool. also ••• But you were asking about I see questions about the Peace Bridge opening in 1927, R.H: Do you remember anything about the Peace Bridge? D.D: I don't remember a great deal about it, but I do remember the �;�the different changes about ... of the, of it down here and I also wanted to tell you that this house that you're in right now was on that sight. It's the house that was moved from that Peace Bridge sight over to here. ( R.H: D.D: This house? this house right here yeah. (15) �R.H: So how old is this house? D.D: Well it was built in the •.• late eighteen hundreds or early nineteen is the closest they can come to it. eighteen ninety. Louis McDermott says it's around The town has given me a letter back ••• nineteen ten or something like that. R.H: So it was moved in 1927? D.D: 1927. It was moved from there over to here, to this location. So this house was on the Peace Bridge. R.H: and who was in here then, who moved it, do you know, do you remember? D.D: I don't know who moved it but I... R.H: No, who got it moved, the owner, you don't know? D.D: Well it's on our ••• it's on our list, yeah I just about had her name on the tip of my tongue now it's left me now, but we have it on the deed, and the search and so forth. R.H: D.D: It's old. R.H: Almost a hundred years old? D.D: nine foot ceilings, thirteen rooms, it's a big old house. R.H: ( So this house is? Thirteen rooms? D.D: Well I think we took one room out, so we took a partition out so there is about twelve rooms in it now. R.H: So getting back to the Peace Bridge, do you remember ... ! know you were what five years old? D.D: Five, yeah when it was built R.H: The opening? D.D: The opening was •.. ••• yeah when it was like the ... The Prince of Wales came over to open it. I remember .. . R.H: Did you see him at all or is that? D.D: Well there was a big crowd around, and they had this loudspeaker arrangement with certain .•• it's not like they have now a days, but one of the things I certainly remember is either hearing him or seeing it, or having it read in the paper by my parents, or somebody says that what he .•• the most outstanding thing that he noticed in Canada while he was here ...is how the parents obey their children. R.H: Is there anything else you can remember, like a lot of excitement or was there any fireworks that day, or brass bands, or anything I like that? D.D: There was a lotta music, yeah there was a lotta music, and so forth (16) �There was a lot of disappointment too. We were down from the Northend, and a lot of people wouldn't even come up because they wanted that bridge to come across where the railroad bridge comes across beside it down at the Northend you see, and the decision was made to have it up here. So it was a disappointment as well. The original plans, well they hoped that the original plans would be for them to have it down at the Northend, the railroad bridge was down .there· and they thought the other should be put down there, but it didn't happen that way. R.H: So that was quite a big day. So do you think it was better that the bridge was built? D.D: Yeah, I think it was better that the bridge was built, but too sure eh .•• where ...you know, where the location would be if they built another bridge. I don't know if they should add to this one ... you know to enlarge to this one. do ••• eh ••• I'm not Of course the queen Elizabeth is here economically whether it would help both sides of the bridge up a little bit if they built one now at the other end. I mean you have to look at that ... but eh ••• I don't know, I don't know what would happen if they had've built it at the other end, if it would have ( been a different development on both the States and Canada, I mean a different part of the ••• of the eh • •• city and the eh .•• town. It didn't seem to do too much for the development of this end of the town, and eh R.H: ..• it didn't change to much. It didn't change any.. . like there wasn't a lot of influx of. •• businesses afterwards, or like a lot of money around? D.D: You don't see it here. You don't see the eh .. .a great ... eh ••• forward economics. R.H: It's almost just like a gateway, do you feel it's just like a gateway? D.D: It's through. R.H: Is it throughr D.D: I think if they had've built one at the other end they would have to go there, and maybe go. . . come down this way, or perhaps a little bit, it would come down this way. if the bridge was down there. I don't know what would've happened I suppose they would've taken the Queen Elizabeth down that way so maybe it would have happened the same way down there. ( R.H: What about the people that were running the ferry boats, were they happy? ( 17) �D.D: R.H: J Well the ferry boats eventually did go out of business as is obvious, But that was what D.D: Yeah it was a long long time afterwards, twenty years afterwards� R.H: So it didn't really hurt them at the time, didn't hurt them financially ••• nineteen forty ••. ? or job wise? D.D: There was a lot of business to come over, there was a lot of traffic to come over, and the cars took the , took the bridge over, and a lot of people didn't have cars for a long time after that and they took the ferry boat over, and the ferry boat was kind of a you know a nostalgic type of a thing so they ••• we took the ferry boat over a lot you know back and forth right up until we were teenagers ... it was fun. R.H: Until .they discontinued them? D.D: Well one winter, one of them got away I guess, and the ice took it right down to the R.H: ..• Yeah I was gonna say, what about the ice-flow, that would hurt ... they didn't go back and forth in the winter then, did they? D.D: I'm trying to think about that.. .I think they did .• .I think they did because I don't think there was much, I think there was just some ... one part of the spring when the ice started to come down and break up. When it came down they pretty well had to tie ofL they went all winter when there was no bridge. went all winter long. I think You know the boats I remember the New Orleans going down R.H: That was kind of dangerous though, wasn't it, or was it? D.D: ••• They didn't seem to have any problems, just the one time I can remember. R.H: Do you anything about, getting back to Crystal Beach, do you anything about the riot? D.D: Oh yeah, I was working at Fleet when that happened, and the Chief of Police was working at Fleet ... Floyd Gerrard his name was, and he used to get in so much trouble because he'd take his uniform off and he was a big husky guy, and he would just lambaste into a bunch of those people. R.H: Do you know what started it? D.D: Well the Jews and the Italians were fighting, and another time the black population came over, but they didn't cause too much of problem. ( 18) a �R.H: W e r e they A m e r icans ? D.D: A m e r ican s , it w a s all A m e r icans w h o w a s . :�both s i d e s w e r e A m e r icans ( it w a s n ' t eh . . . t h e y w e r e n ' t fight ing w ith the C a n a d ia n s or anyth ing:.. it was the J e w ish A m e r ic a n s , and the Ital ian A m e r icans w h o c a m e ove r , and t h e y w e r e f i gh t in g , took up all t h e st r e e t and nobody could walk d o w n . This police man h e walked d o w n . .. a b ig fella.::h e u s e d to w o r k at F le e t E inar . . . oh what's h is n a m e� .. E in a r s o m e t h ing:;·:th e big S w e d e , b i g fella .. . h is legs .. R.H: D.D: . He was t h e C h ie f of P olice ? N o he w a s j ust w o r k i n g w ith me and he walked d o w n and they s pl it. He j u s t w e n t out in t h e m iddle of t h e s t r e e t w h e n he walked out and j us t k e p t r i g h t o n by t h e m . R.H: D.D: S o how o l d w e r e y o u w h e n t h is r iot w e n t on ? I ' d p r obably be .. . I s t a r t e d at F leet w h e n I was s e v e n t e e n .. .I ' d probably be . . . oh anywhere between e ighteen and t w e n t y . R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: { and you w o r k e d at F le e t too ? yes . W h e n d i d F le e t c o m e i n t o t o w n , do you r e m e m be r ? G e e I don' t k n o w . I s t a r t e d a t F le e t in n in e t e e n . . . I was 7 years out t h e r e s o 7 y e a r s back in f o r t y seven, y o u ' r e g o ing t o guess. . 1940 I I s t a r t e d at F l e e t , a n d eh . J w o r k e d o u t t h e r e as a sheet-metal w o r k e r. I was a s t ock-clerk for a wh ile. A t s e v e n t e e n I w o rked o u t s ide u n t il I g o t in t h e sheet-metal d e pa r t m e n t . R.H: D.D: D i d you like w o r k i n g sheet-m e tal or the railroad ? N o , I liked t h e r a i l r o a d b e t t e r . I w a s n ' t really fond of e i t h e r but t h e railroad . . .I l i k e d F le e t because of the ... w h a t you learned there as far as s h e e t - m e tal work, and s o l d e r i n g , a n d so forth. That has . . . that p a r t that I l e a rn e d made it possible for m e t o buy th is house, because I r e n t e d a sheet- m e tal shop w h ile I w a s w o rking o n the railway . I worked after noons and then I'd r u n t h e sheet-metal s h o p in t h e day-t i m e and ah . . J put about 10 m iles of e a v e s t rough u p in t h i s t o w n. R.H: D.D: W h e r e w a s t h i s s h o p y o u h a d , where was that ? D o w n in E m e r ick A v e . I t ' s old G r i m m e!. .. you k n o w G ri m mels dead .. :h e u s e d to have ... he u s e d to be a plu m be r , and h e had a s h e e t- m e tal shop r ig h t in the back o f h is place there, so I r e n t e d that. ( And w e rej u v e n a t e d i t , and I s o r t e d of made u p m y o w n . . . m y o w n.ends and d o w n s p o u t s and t h ings like that, and I p u t u p eave s t r ough . (19) �Well I lea rned all that y o u s e e at F le e t and eh.'°of c o u r s e T e d H ilton w a s a shee t - m etal boss in there and when I was o n.. . on a H a m ilton ( j ob on the railway w e had a b i g long layove r in H a m ilton. I j u m ped on t h e bus and w e n t down t o T e d H il t o n ' s sheet-me tal s h o p a f t e r F le e t and h e t a u g h t m e all t h i s . .. t h e t r ic k s and th ings in t h e t r a d e of p u t t ing eave s t r ough u p . O f c o u rse w h e n I put eaves t r ough u p h e r e I wasn' t d o i n g an y b o d y o u t o f a n y w o r k because the sheet- m e t a l p e o p l e hate p u t t ing e a v e s t r ough u p . It's a nasty job. S o I didn't m in d p u t t ing it u p a n d I put it u p a n d g o t enough money t o p u t d o w n . . . R.H: D.D: H o w long w e r e y o u in that b u s ine s s ? Oh I' d say about t h r e e . . .! d i d t h a t for about t h r e e years I g u e s s u n t il I got enough m o n e y t o b u y a h ouse. R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: R.H: And you w e r e s t ill w o r k ing at F le e t d u r ing that ? No I was st ill on the r a ilway . A n d y o u w e r e on t h e r a ilroad , t h e railway ? Y e ah . Do you know anything about t h e C a s ino on N iaga r a B l v d . t h a t ' s n o w N iagara C h r i s t ian C ollege ? D.D: ( Oh yeah , yeah s u re. T h e y b u i l t that .. . a lot of p e o ple p u t t h e i r m on e y into that. R.H: D.D: A lot of local people ? A l o t of local people , bus iness m e n I g u e s s put t h e i r m o n e y into tha t . I t was going t o b e a b i g g a m bling c a s ino d o w n along . .od o w n a l o n g the r iv e r t h e r e a n d eh . . . R.H: D.D: Do y o u know any of t h e people w h o i n v e s t e d in t h e r e ? . No I c o u l d n ' t . .! c o u l d n ' t r e m e m be r that , it was quite a long long t i m e ago , b u t they did build it, a n d I guess they opened it u p o r s o m e t h ing and t h e y had a raid o n it and c l o s e d it d o w n , and it w a s q u i t e a... q u i t e a cont r o v e r s ial t h in g in those days. You g e t a lot of d ifferent s t o r ie s , b u t n e v e r t h e l e s s it w a s supposed t o be a g a m bling casino when it was first built . But then B ishop S w alm of t h e B r e th e r n in C h r is t C h u r c h . . .eh t h e y had a m e e t ing a n d t h e y w a n t e d t o buy a place t o start a C h r is t ian s c h o o l s o t h e y d e c i d e d on t h is s igh t . S o t h i s was ironic because h e r e ' s a gam bling c a s i n o , n o w t h e y want t o s t a r t a C h r is t ian s c h o o l , a n d t h e y struck a p r ic e of what t h e y w o u l d wanna pay f o r it and t h e y . ..I r e m e m be r B ishop S wa l m say ing at o n e o f the m e e t ings a n d h e said that ... o n e o f the p e r s o n s said that the only th ing he could s e e a d isadvantage o f . . . h e says is the (20) �w a t e r. W h e r e a r e you going to g e t the w a t e r ? B is h o p S w a l m says says t h e r e ' s t h e N iagara r iver r igh t there and that's t h e last th ing ( w e need t o w o r ry about is w a t e r . He said " t h e r e ' s all k inds o f w a te r : " E v e r y b o d y had a b i g laugh ove r t h a t , b u t D a v i d . . . le t s s e e B r ooks C r o m a d y , David C r o m ady . . . he's ah he's a ... not a j u dge b u t a m a g i s t r a t e d o w n in T o r o n t o n o w , b u t h e was in Welland . . . h e was a l a w y e r i n Wellan d . H e looked aft e r the transac t i o n , t h e b u s i n e s s t ransact ion and I was in the office w ith D a v i d one t i m e and w e w e r e talking about this and I t o l d him I was t each ing a t N iagara C h r ist ian C ollege : : : D a v i d C r o m a d y said t h a t this charac t e r c a m e in w ith the m oney all w rapped u p in a n e w spaper a n d it was cash . H e says it w as thirty o r f o r t y t h ousand d o l l a r s all w rapped u p in a n e w s pa p e r t h a t they w e r e gonna � � : n o h e took it away i n n e w s paper that ' s what it w a s . They gave h i m t h e m o n e y , h e w a n t e d cash , h e d i d n ' t w a n t a c h e que h e wanted cash . S o t h e y gave him t h e cash a n d h e w rapped it all u p in a n e w s p a p e r a n d t o o k it away . R.H: D.D: W a s t h e C a s ino t h e n e v e r b u ilt , was it e v e r built ? Oh y e ah it was built , but it w a s n ' t c o m pletely f i n i s h e d . I don' t th ink it w a s c o m pletely f i n ish e d , b u t they o p e n e d up before . . . it ( w a s finish e d . R.H: D.D: W h y do y o u t h i n k , why do y o u think it w a s n ' t finished ? S o m e bo d y in t h is t o w n k n o w s , I w ish my uncle w a s al ive . He k n o w s . t h e w h o l e s t o r y o f i t , b u t h e s a y s that . .! t h ink h e w a s say ing t h a t it d i d o p e n u p and they t ook s o m e b e t s a n d the police w e r e r ig h t t h e r e t o r a i d the place . R.H: D.D: Y o u m e an it w a s n ' t legal ? No no t h e w h ole g a m bling t h i n g , t h e wh ole c o n c e p t was ille gal, b u t they were t h i n k ing that they w e r e gonna g e t a l i c e n s e o r s o m e th ing like that , a n d they d i d n ' t g e t a license , b u t they went ahead any way or s o m e t h ing and they went in and r a i d e d t h e m , and I guess . . . ah . I d o n ' t k n o w what happened . .! j us t d o n ' t k n o w what h a p pened b u t it n e v e r r e a l l y got o f f t h e g r o u n d . R.H: D.D: S o t h e n N iagara C h r is t ia n C ol lege . . . ? T h e y b o u g h t the p r o pe r t y , and t h e y took it ove r , and made a sch ool out o f it. But it's f u n n y , it s t a r t e d out t o be a g a m bling . . . and t u r n e d o u t t o h e a N iagara C h r i s t ian C olle g e . ( . S o m e o f t h e . . I w ish I could r e m e m be r some o f t h e s t o r ie s that B is h o p S wa l m was talk ing to me a b o u t , and D a v i d C o mady . . . h e and I w o u l d s i t in h i s office (21) �and listen to h i m t e l l ing a b o u t it . R.H: A s ide f r o m the r a i l r oad and F le e t , what was the o t h e r bus inesses like, indu s t r ies that k e p t t h e t o w n g o ing ? D.D: O n e of t h e b iggest indu s t r ie s was . . . t h e r e was t h e c us t o m s of c o u r se � : : t h e c u s t o m s i m m ig r a t ion t h a t w a s a b ig bus ines s , b u t the b iggest b u s i n e s s in t o w n I guess is st ill t h e biggest b u s i n e s s in t h e t o w n is the B o a r d of E d u c a t i o n , t h e s c h o o l s . I th ink they h ir e d m o r e people and the school system .. .! t h ink t h e sch ool system should be y o u know looked a f t e r . . . should be c o n s i de r e d . R.H: B u t what about people that w e r e ' n t l ike t each e r s . . . l ike say I g u e s s w h e n d i d t h e h o s p i t al . . . w h e n w a s that b u i l t , do you know a n y , d o you know the y e a r w h e n that w a s b u ilt ? D.D: The hospital is a good e x a m ple of h i r ing peo ple t o o . S h o r tly a f t e r D r . D o u g l a s d ied . . . t h e r e ' s q u i t e a s t o r y about that n o w l' m . . . I c a n ' t th ink of w h o the p e r s o n is t o talk t o , b u t that h o s p ital was supposed t o be b u ilt on a d i f f e r e n t p i e c e o f ground, and t h e r e was qu ite an argu m e nt about that b e f o r e it was b u il t t o o . t h e p e r s o n w h o was t e l l ing m e that s t o r y . I c a n ' t th ink of I f t h e y ' r e s t ill alive I don' t know , b u t t h e y were t e l l ing me t h e story about that and it was quite an involved tale . { I w ish I ' d have had m y tape- r e c o r d e r on w h e n t h e s e people w e r e talking . R.H: D.D: W h e r e d i d people go b e f o r e they h a d the h o s p ital ? I t e l l ya . . . up on P h ipps S t r e e t , t h e r e was a . . . M r s . M o i r . . . B e t t y M o i r , w e l l s h e had a daugh t e r B e t t y . . ! w e n t t o school w ith h e r a n d s h e . w a s a r e g i s t e r e d n u r s e a n d s h e h a d a b ig h ou s e u p o n t h e o t h e r e n d o f P h ipps S t re e t r ight a c r o s s f r o m t h e . . . P u t n e y ' s s t o r e , a n d she had h e r . . . it w a s n ' t a h o s p ital s o r t of th ing but it w a s a place where she had beds a n d so forth and if people were ill, and they couldn't be moved a n d s h e looked a f t e r them if they needed, y o u know constant c a r e . R.H: D.D: She started the . . . L ike a convalescent h o m e ? Y e s s o r t a like that , b u t it w a s n ' t f o r older p e ople . person who was s i c k . It was for any S o s h e s t a r t e d that , b u t if anybody was really eh . . . you k n o w really s ic k , and they needed v e r y good . . . h o s p italization t h e y w e r e taken t o B u f falo m o s t of the t i m e . R.H: Was t h e r e any t i m e w h e n y o u w e r e h u r t as a ch ild , was t h e r e any old c u res your m o t h e r u s e d ? D.D: W e l l D r . D e r b y s h i r e a c r o s s t h e s t r e e t was an anesth e t is t f o r all (22) �t h e d o c t o r s h e r e because he u n de r s t ood anesth e t ic s . Now when I was a young k i d about t h i r t e e n . . . well I was t h i r t e e n a n d I re m e m b e r t h a t I w a s j u m ping o f f t h e r o o f a n d C h a r l ie M o i r l i v e d n e x t d o o r . . . h e ( was o u r n e ighbou r . R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: I was j u m ping off of h i s r o o f int o h is leave s . W h e r e was that t h e n , what st reet was t h i s , E m e r ick ? D uffe r in S t r e e t . D u ffer in ? Y eah I was j u m ping o f f the r o o f i n t o a p ile of leave s , a n d the k ids were all h a v ing a g r e at t i m e , well I j u m pe d .. . ! was gonna j u m p a way u p h igh and I caught t h e back o f m y h e e l o n a guy w i r e , and I f l i p p e d r ight o v e r a n d landed r ight on t h e c e m e n t s i d e w alk w ith my hand. I broke m y a r m , t h is arm r ight off. I b r ok e t h e s e two bones r ig h t off, and s h o v e d t h e m r ight u p t o here . . . m y h a n d . . . the t ips of m y fingers right h e r e and m y ar m w a s that b i g ( s w olle n ) . W e l l D r . C ollins w a s u p t h e r e w h e r e the s u b m a r ine place is u p on . . . a c r o s s f r o m t h e C h u rch on D u ffe r in S t r e e t t h e r e . in t h e r e , that was h i s office . W e l l D r . C ollins w a s So they called h i m , a n d he c a m e o u t a t h e r e s c r e a m i n g , a n d holle r i n g . T h i r t e e n y e a r s o l d , and m y a r m u p l ik e t h a t y o u k n o w , I t h o u g h t I was k ille d , I t h ought m y neck was b r o k e n . W e l l a n y w a y h e p u l l e d t h i s h a n d d o w n a n d I t ig h t e n e d ( r ight u p , a n d I was fairly s t r o n g , t h ir t e e n y e a r s old a n d I w o r k e d in a b a k e - s h o p beh i n d t h e r e , a n d I u s e d t o c a r r y t h r e e of f l o u r at one t i m e . 100 pounds I was f a i r l y s t r ong . . . well I ' d t ig h t e n u p , and I'd pull t h e th ing back u p again . . . boy he'd g e t s o m a d w e l l finally h e got it down, and h e g o t t h e spl int on i t , a n d h e . . . h e j u s t had a s plint o n it, not a c a s t o r anything and h e t ig h t e n e d it all u p . W e l l I w as i n absolut e agony a l l night l o n g , a n d I h a d t o g o a n d g e t a p i c t u r e of i t . S o h e t o o k the pic t u r e , a n d h e f o u n d out that all the nerves . . . R.H: D.D: W h e r e d i d y o u go to g e t the p i c t u r e ? W h e n I was t h i r t e e n ? They h a d t h e h o s p ital t h e n . So I had t h e p i c t u r e taken no . . . yes t h e y d i d have the h o s p ital I' m s u r e they d i d b u t I h a d t h e p i c t u r e t a k e n any way . . . yeah t h e y h a d t h e h o s p i t a l . W e l l D r . C ollins s a i d i t ' s g o t t a be r e b r o k e n . It had knitted together a b i t , but y o u k n o w i n t h r e e days it d o e s n ' t k n it t o g e t h e r t o o m u c h b u t it h a d t o be r e - b r ok e n , a n d a l l those n e r v e s take n , and place d , ( a n d r e s e t , b u t he s a i d " w e a r e gonna h a v e t o p u l l the m all . " So D r . D e r by s h i r e c a m e d o w n a n d t h e y p u t m e o n t h e k it c h e n t able . I d i d n ' t go in the h o s p ital cause t h e y d i d n ' t have any insurance (24) �or anyth ing in those days . Y o u k n o w t h e h o s p ital . . . it w o u l d have put you r ight out of b u s i n e s s . ( They put m e o n t h e kitchen table , and they gave me t h e a n e s t h e t ic r ight in the k i t c h e n , a n d s e t m y ar m . That ' s the a r m r ig h t t h e r e , ( s h o w s r i g h t a r m ) a n d y o u can' t e v e n tell it was b r o k e n . R.H: D.D: Was it in a cast after t h a t ? N o a splint . They put it in a s p l i n t and t igh t e n e d it r ight d o w n w ith tape . R.H: D.D: T h a t ' s what they d i d t h e n , t h e y d i d n ' t put it in a cast ? P u t it a r o u n d t h e e n d , a n d t a p e d my finge r s a r o u n d i t , and e v e r y t h i n g like that but I d i d n ' t have a cast o n it . R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: Do you know h o w long y o u h a d t h e s p l i n t on it ? S ix w e e k s . S ix weeks t ill it was healed u p . Y o u s a i d y o u w o r k e d in a bake r y , d o . . . ? Y eah old S i m m o n d s . What was the n a m e of it ? S i m m on d s had the bake - s h o p , a n d t h e n . . . w h e n we m o v e d d o w n it belonged t o a fella na m e d S i m m o n d s . . . S i m m o n d s bake-sh o p . R.H: ( D.D: W h a t s t r e e t w a s it on ? On J a r vis S t r e e t , a n d r ig h t n e x t d o o r to t h e bake-sh o p was M c M o r r in s clothing s t o r e , t h e n t h e bake - s h o p . I j ust f o r g e t w h a t was t h e o t h e r one n e x t t o i t , I t h ink it was a restuarant o r s o m e th in g , b u t eh . . . S i m m o n d s sold it t o M o ra n s , and it was M o rans bake-sh o p , a n d I was o n l y t h i r t e e n w h e n h e a s k e d m e if I w o u l d c o m e o v e r a n d s l i c e the b r e a d , a n d w r a p i t , a n d c l e a n t h e p a n s o u t , and s t u f f like that , and c a r r y t h e c oke in f o r t h e . . . A f u n n y th ing h a p p e n e d , G e orge D e v e reaux had j u st b e e n h i r e d . H e was doing m y j o b , a n d I o f c o u r s e I was h ir e d t o do t h a t j ob w h ile h e was m o v e d u p a s t e p , a n d t h e n e w f e l l a a l w a y s has t o d o t h e j oe j obs you s e e . R.H: D.D: W h a t j oe j obs d i d you d o ? W e l l I s c raped the flou r , and I s c raped the pans, and I c a r r i e d in t h e c o k e , a n d I car r ied in t h e flou r , a n d so f o r t h . I s l ic e d t h e bread . O n e of t h e t i m e s I filled t h e j elly dough n u t s , and he t old me j ust t o g i v e t h e m a l i t t l e w e e . . . p u t t h e w a t e r w it h t h e s t u f f you k n o w . . . g iv e t h e m j u s t a l i t t l e w e e shot like that you k no w , and I s a i d " j u s t l ik e that " a n d h e said " pe r f e c t , j u s t l ike that , a n d no m o r e . " ( Well when h e w e n t I j u st pu m pe d t h e m r ight u p full, a n d they w e r e h o t , and w h e n w e took t h e m i n , and p u t them out in the glass c a s e , a n d (25) �and about half an hour later A lma Near ever, I forget what her name was ( • • • •• • who w as that ? A lma ... w h o A lma N e ar she let a big scre a m out, and here they had cooled down, a n d shot the j elly a l l t h e w ay down the glass case. I almost got fired over th_a t . We ll any way George Devereaux worked at noont and when noon- t i m e c ame around he sat close to this old Sco t . see • .• He was a real old c ountry S c o t you Henderson, his name was Henderson, Andy H e nderson t h ey • • called him. R.H: D.D: So what did he do? He and w as the Baker. ••• He done all the baking , He baked the buns , finally he got me baking pumpkin pies that 's why I do all t h e cooking at home no w . That's where I learned m y baking , and c ooking ; ; , and eh...any way noon came along, and I sa w this George g e t t ing closer to the Baker, looking at the clock , and looking at me, and you kno w I says somethings gonna happen here, what's going on? So any w ay noon came along and the old Scotsman looks around at me , and he says (Del quoted the Scotsman but it could n ' t be deciphered ) . I said "okay " so I went upstairs, and I got his lunch, and I brought it down and gave it to him, and George Devereaux looked at me ( and he said "ho w in the world did you ever kno w what he w as t alking about " I said " what do you mean, he spoke as c lear as anyt hing , A ll my dad's folks talk like that up in the O t ta w a Valley . He couldn't get over that, but I could understand every w ord h e said . R.H: D.D: How much money did you make there? I st arted out at 75 cents a day , and I was there for about t wo or three weeks and he gave me a dollar and a hal f a day. at R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: 5 in the morning and worked t ill 5 I st arted at nigh t , and saturd ays. Did you save any of your money that you made ? Yeah I put money in the bank. What bank? The first bank . • • it was the Bank of Commerce mine w as do w n in Fort Erie, where the Gas Com pany •• • no ... I guess Simpson Sear s , •• no it's a parking lot right no w where the Bank of Commer ce was. R.H: D.D: ( Where is that? Right next to Sears on Jarvis Street . I st arted my bank ac count there, and I put so mu ch in everytime I got somethi ng , and I might get a lit t le bit of money off my dad and go t ake gui t ar lessons, and put the rest of the money in the bank. (2 6) Then I worked for �the Bellard Theatre delivering handbills. ( That used to get me 75 cents for doing that, and two free tickets. R.H: D.D: What was the name of the Theatre ? Bellard. R.H: Where was that? D.D: Dufferin Street. R.H: Oh, on Dufferin ? D.D: R.H: D.D: Yeah there's a parking lot there now. Was it a movie theatre ? Yeah it was a movie theatre, the first one in Fort Erie. had that •.. David, Louis. The Ziffs I'd be going to school from there walking up to Phipps Street school, and Dave and Louis, and Danny and all of them would be out there shining up the sign for the theatre. Reva Atwood used to play the piano down there. That was the music we had when they had these horses going along you know, and chasing the bad guys. R.H: D.D: Silent movies ? Some of them were silent movies, a lot of them were silent movies, and she'd be playing the piano away there .•• Reva Atwood, yeah I remember that. R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: How much did you pay to get in there ? I think it was 15 cents to get in but ••. Was it benches or was it seats ? They were seats, but they were hard seats. fancy seats. Later on I think they got some good seats in there. They had a little candy store at the side. R.H: D.D: You know they weren't They had the ••• In the theatre ? Yeah you'd go in the theatre, and you got your tickets you know and you went in ••• went down the two aisle, but on the side there was a candy store where you could buy popcorn, and candy, and Louis Ziff's mother took the tickets, and his sister she was a beautiful .•• girl his sister used to run the candy store once in a while or sometimes •.. her mother would be there. R.H: Was anybody the usher, did they have an usher in those days where they took you to your seats with a flashlight ? D.D: ( Yes, I think some of the boys did that sometimes like Louis, and Dave they were young and they used to do that. R.H: Do you remember any of the movies ? (27) �D.D: ( Oh yeah, I used to go up every week to see Rin tin tin, Tom Mix, , . they used to have Tom Mix movies you know, and some cowboy movies. R.H: Tarzan? D.D: Oh yeah, we seen Tarzan,and I'll tell you another was Sonja Henie when she first came out. R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: Who? Sonja Henie. Sonja Henie? Yeah when she first came out I used to never miss her . I fell in love with her the first time I saw her skating. R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: She was in the talking movies though? Yeah. So when did this theatre close any idea? Louis would be able to tell you right on so would down here, Monty Lewis ••. ••. what's his name Monty Lewis married this Ziff girl you see. R.H: D.D: You don't have any idea what it would ? I'm trying to think now, I can't... I can't think exactly what it was but it was eh ( •.. • . . well it was a dark spot in their history •• • what it did because it was really eh...actually they moved it down from there down to this one down here then it turned into a bowling alley after it was a movie. It didn't make it as a movie so they made it as a bowling alley down here on the Niagara Blvd. I guess they still own that building, I don't know. R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: Is that the one on Klauck? No, down on Niagara here. Oh yeah, so that's where they moved it to? Yeah that's where they moved it to . Now it's closed down there on them. They tore it down I guess and made apartments after Don Dean. That's where eh . • . McDermott's. . . Louis Mc Dermott's home is right there yeah right next to it right next door. eh ••• I guess the building was turned around, renovated or something . had the Y.M.C. A somewhere around there. They I don't know whether it was that building or not afterwards, but they tore it all down. R.H: So were there any other places you went , like in the winter time. What was the biggest thing you did for recreation like entertainment? D.D: When we lived on Dufferin Street, the biggest (28) .• • the most winter �fun we had when I was a kid we used to have a hill on Dufferin ••. Street, and everyone from all over came to slide on this hill on { their sleds. relief On the town like people had to go on what they called they didn't have this handout that they have today. You ••• had to go on relief and you had to work, and they gave you a slip and you took it to the store and you got the groceries and you gave the slip. They didn't get any money like now, whatever you call it. R.H: D.D: What kind of work did you do? Well this like on relief •.. ..• part of the work that people had to do that were they'd go, and gather up all of the ashes that the people put out, they burnt coal in those days, and they'd gather up the ashes, sprinkle them on the roadway so that the cars wouldn't slip. Same as they put salt on now, and they'd put those ashes all over, and whenever they came to Dufferin Street all the kids would go up and stop them and say "don't put them on here" and they wouldn't put the ashes on Dufferin Street cause the kids would use that. Every winter they'd put those ashes on all the streets all around the Northend of the town there, but they wouldn't put them on Dufferin Street, so the kids could slide down on their sleighs. thing I remember about the depression ••• Another you see my dad worked all during the depression so he was very fortunate. Now we were fortunate because he could afford to buy us a bicycle during the depression, but all the kids on that street couldn't afford a bicycle so we never got a bicycle because those kids couldn't have one R.H: D.D: You are talking about a two-wheel bike? Two-wheel bike yeah. I think there's a difference in the way people think toward each other... In those days and the way we think toward each other now. R.H: D.D: No one had a bicycle in the neighbourhood? They couldn't afford one so we couldn't have one because that would make them feel ••• you know that wouldn't be right. My dad didn't feel it would be right that we should have one when they couldn't have one. So we just didn't have one, we didn't need one, so we didn't have one, and that wouldn't make them feel bad. that ••. you know that type of a thought for the other people •.. thoughtfulness for the other people. (29) So that I don't think there exists the �same now a days as it did in those days. That's a general thing not just my dad, but everybody seemed to have that feeling for ( each other. R.H: D.D: But you had a car, did a lot of people have cars? We had a car but it was in the garage most of the time. What my dad used the car for. . . his car for was. . . he went to the store and he bought four and five boxes filled with groceries ... then you could get a box full of groceries for about a dollar and a half or two dollars in those days, and he'd fill those four or five boxes and he'd put them in the car, and he would drive to some of the people he was working with that were out of work. . . there was no such a thing as welfare that stuff in those days. or unemployment unsurance or any of He would take those boxes around, and my mother would ask them to take her out, and show her the garden or whatever they would be sowing ... he would take that box and put it in their back stoop, and come out to join them and then they'd go away. They'd never know that they had put it there so that's what he used his car for. R.H: ( He walked to work. People did it individually, so now they have organizations that do these things? D.D: Well they had organizations as well in those days and he'd join with those. . . he gave to those as well. extra. This was a little something That's the kind of person he was, and the kind of a person a lot of the people were, thinking about other people. R.H: You're saying the depression brought the people closer together, do you think so? D.D: I think that it is an unfortunate situation that people have been deprived of a depression. . . one generation has been deprived of it. . .that were they have had to get down to were they had to really wonder if they were going to make it to the next day or so. Some of the people I've seen out behind the alley way picking out lettuce . and stuff out the garbage . . ! don't like to see that sort of thing happen, but I think perhaps even if they could go some place, and live with people. . . like I went over to Spain, and lived over there. Go and live with some of the people over there and see what's it's like. ( We did have one another and I guess it was one of the most important. . . valuable things · we had in those days, in the depression days was the feeling for. . . our most valuable posession (30) �is the fact I th ink , t h a t we h a d one anot h e r . R.H: ( D.D: R.H: Did you have a telephone ? We had a t e l e p h o n e . A lot of p e o ple you know d i d n' t . D id o t h e r people u s e i t , d i d t h e ne igh b o u r s use y o u r phone w a s t h a t com mon ? D.D: R.H: D.D: Oh yeah . The ne igh b o u r s c o m ing in us ing the phone ? M o t h e r would have . . . anyt i m e anyone was u s ing t h e phone t h e y w e r e welc o m e t o u s e i t , a n d m y m o t h e r w o u l d have f o o d o n t h e s t o ve . P u t it t h e r e a l l t i me s o f the d a y , because t h e r e w e r e people c o m ing along . . . there were u n f o r t unate people c o m ing along that was looking for s o m e t h ing t o eat . She'd b r ing them in and s e t the table for them a n d g i v e them a meal a n d t h i s was going o n for t h r e e o r four days a w e e k , t h a t s o m e b o d y would come along a n d be h u n g r y . S h e ' d b r ing t h e m i n and feed th e m . N o w if you b r ing s o m e body in t h e y ' d p r o bably hold you u p and beat you u p , take all y o u r s t u f f . R.H: D.D: { So you see t h e r e w a s q u ite a d i ffe rence t h e n ? I not ice that d i f fe r e n c e , you want to be good to people , but t h e n w h e n you s e e w h at ' s h a p p e n i n g where these people have n ' t h a d to to eh . . . s uffe r any h a r d s h ips . You d o n ' t k n o w what t h e y ' r e going to d o , you can' t p r e d ict people like you could in t h e o l d day s . R.H: D.D: R.H: D.D: D u r ing t h e d e p r e s s io n , d i d any businesses close do w n ? No I d i d n ' t n o t i c e m a n y b u s inesses closing. So s o m e peo ple w e r e w o r k ing ? S o m e people w e r e w o r k i n g , like t h e r e was a great p e r c e ntage o f the p e o p l e that w e r e n ' t w o r k i n g . E v e r y b o d y w a s n ' t w o rk in g , a great pe-r c e n tage of t h e people w e r e n ' t w o rk i n g . P e o ple w e r e o n p e n s i o n s , a n d railway pens ions , and gove r n m e nt pe n s ions w e r e a l w a y s c o m ing in a n d t h e y w e r e living l ike kings you k n o w c a u s e they had money . You c o u l d g e t s o m e bo d y to w o r k a r o u n d y o u r h o u s e and c l e a n all y o u r s t o r m w indo w s , a n d put t h e m o n o r t a k e them off o r whatever for lot of m o n e y . 25 c e n t s for a w h o l e day . They c o u l d take that 25 a loaf of bread, I t h ink t h a t w a s a r o u n d c e n t s a n d y o u could buy 9 cents, 8 o r could buy a b o t t l e o f m ilk I t h ink it was for ( R.H: D.D: T h a t was a 9 or 12 9 cents. They cent s . Do you r e m e m be r t h e P o s t O f f i c e , was it always on J a r v i s S t re e t ? No t h a t P o s t Office w a s n ' t t h e r e , it was b u ilt t h e r e . (3 1) I' m t r y i n g �to th ink of w h e r e it was before ( R.H: D.D: now . D o you r e m e m be r w h e r e y o u got y o u r s t a m ps ? T h a t ' s a good q u e s t i o n . I t ' s been t h e r e f o r so long that you j us t t a k e it for g r a n t e d . . . no t h a t P o s t O f f ice . . . I r e m e m be r w h e n t h a t was b u ilt . . . n o t h a t w as a n open ing w e w e n t t h r ough t h e r e w h e n w e w e nt t o s c h o o l . T h e r e was a b u i l d i n g t h e r e . . . t h e r e was an o l d g a r a g e b a c k in t h e r e t h e n , and t h e r e was a C anadian T ir e s t a r t e d up. M c C o r m ick' s , they h a d an o l d s t o r e o v e r t h e r e on C o u r t w r ig h t S t reet . R.H: D.D: W h a t d i d they sell ? It was an old old . . . j u s t l i k e an old g e n e r a l s t o r e . Oh you' d walk in there l ike you w e r e w alking i n t o t h e n in e t e e n t w e n t ies o r e ig h t e e n s . R.H: D.D: What d i d they c a r r y , e v e r y t h ing j us t about ? J u s t l ike the old s t o r e s . off. That j u st d i e d away when the people d i e d T h e y j u s t k e p t the b u il d i n g , t h e y l i v e d in the bac k , and h a d t h e s t o r e in front . R.H: D.D: ( W h e r e w a s that ? C o u r t w r ight S t e e t a c r o s s f r o m the L G . A . to t h e parking l o t . R.H: D.D: W e l l it was r ight n e x t I t h i n k it w a s r o u n d in that a r e a . W a s it h u s b a n d and w ife t h a t o w n e d it ? Y e ah , One of the M c C o r m ick g i r l s is s t ill alive . I t h ink she l iv e s o v e r o n H ighland, B o w e n o r H ighland I g u e s s s o m e w h e r e . She's s t ill a l i v e , she w o u l d t e l l y o u a b o u t that . R.H: W e l l that was a real in t e r e s t ing s e s s io n t o d a y . I thank you v e r y m u c h , I really a p p r e c ia t e i t . D.D: W e l l it was my pleasu r e , it was n ice to g e t back i n t o part of o u r l ife that we s o r t a left b e h i n d . R.H: D.D: ( It w o n ' t be left behind now . W e l l i t ' l l be t h e r e , but it w ill be left behind t h ough . (3 2) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Crystal Beach Subject The topic of the resource Crystal Beach, Ontario Description An account of the resource Select historical photos and documents digitized from the Fort Erie local history and Louis McDermott collections Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived FEPL -LH - Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fort Erie Public Library and Louis McDermott Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Rose Hearn Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Rose Hearn Location The location of the interview. Mr. Davidson's home at 61 Princess Street, Fort Erie Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Cassette tape Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History - Davidson, Del Description An account of the resource Provided here is Del Davidson's interview. He discusses such topics as: Schools, Stores and businesses Erie Beach Crystal Beach amusement park Fort Erie Times Peace Bridge Ferries North end Medicine Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Fort Erie Public Library Local History Collection Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource July 4, 1985 1980s 1985 Crystal Beach amusement park Erie Beach factories and industry ferries Fort Erie Fort Erie Times north end Oral history peace bridge schools stores and businesses transcripts