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This is Michael Near interviewing Mr. Ross Valvo, at the Fort Erie Public
J
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I
,;-1'
Library, it is May 28/85.
M.N:
Mr. Valvo were where you born?
R.V:
I was born in a place that used to be called Bridgeburg, now Fort Erie.
M.N:
That was the old north end of Fort Erie?
R.V:
The north end of Fort Erie, I was born in 19 16, and a
.••
right on
Jarvis St..
M.N:
You mentioned your Dad, was your Dad from Fort Erie?
R.V:
No, my Dad came from Italy, and was one of the first Italian familys
to settle in, what is now Fort Erie but used to be Bridgeburg, he
arrived with his 3 brothers, here in Fort Erie, he stayed in Fort Erie,
the others went over to Buffalo.
M.N:
You grew up in the north end, in Bridgeburg?
R.V:
Yes, born and raised there and never left.
M.N:
You went to school?
R.V:
Went to school, Rose Seaton, used to be called Phipp Street at one
time and from there to the Fort Erie High School and then to the
University of Buffalo and took a small business course over there.
M.N:
There must be a awful lot of changes since you were a boy?
R.V:
Oh yes, Jarvis Street was a mud street, in fact Jarvis St. was one
of the nicest strees in the town of Fort Erie, all the stores where
there, next door to me was Briggs, the only gas station in town it
was on Jarvis St., two old gas pumps there, Imperial Oil was in fact
the name of it and Jarvis St. was lined with Maple trees, right from
top to bottom, they cut them all down and now there starting to
grow something back again, they look like trees but I don't know
what they are.
M.N:
Do you remember any of the other stores that were down on Jarvis?
R.V:
John T. James which was a dry goods store, across from my Dad, on
the corner
•••
and Mr. Baker who had a confectionery store, sold
papers and candy, R. A. Land up the street where the treasury dep
artment is in Fort Erie, he was a pharmacist, and down the street
was Atwoods, Yeo's, Bitcher the old hardware store and Milik had
the grocery store and food store... who else was down there, there
was a Chinese Resturant down there to, a great big hill ... there
was a hill at the bottom of the street and all the kids would go down
there with there slieghs, there was no stores down there then, oh
I'd say down from ... were the Bingo Hall is now, there was no stores
down that side.
1
�R.V:
It was just empty spaces.
M.N:
What would you do as a kid for entertainment?
R.V:
We made our own entertainment, as kids in the winter time, we
would go down there with our slieghs and out door rinks were
common, I think we had more severe winters then, then we do now,
because when you built a rink in those days, it seemed to last for
the whole winter, now it doesn't, and as I say we made our own
fun, the kids got together, played cards and visited nieghbours.
M.N:
You must have gone to the old Belard Theatre then?
R.V:
It was right behind our place on Dufferin St. the Bellard.
M.N:
You must have know Ernie Benner then?
R.V:
Ernie Benner, very well.
M.N:
I had a interview with him and
R.V:
Ernie was my nieghbour and the Sherks were are nieghbour behind,
•••
J. Sherk was a carpenter, moved to Ridgeway with his family.
M.N:
Would you remember Dr. Douglas, would you?
R.V:
No he was in the south end, I remember Dr. Douglas, but he was
in the south end of town, Dr. Mikon was in the north end and Dr.
'
Collins.
M.N:
Ross, would you consider Fort Erie, the south end, as a seperate
town?
R.V:
Yes, it actually was a seperate town.
M.N:
Which would have been bigger, Bridgeburg or Fort Erie at that time?
R.V:
I would say, you see they had the west end too, Amagari, and once
upon a time it was called Victoria, it was like three little commun
ities, I can remember when they joined, a big celebration right in
front of our store, they had a ... they made a big building out of
wood and set it on fire, that was the end of Bridgeburg and all beÂ
came Fort Erie.
M.N:
Who was the mayor then?
R.V:
I think Dr. Mikon was the first mayor... not when they amalgamated,
I'm sorry I can't remember... was it Holly, I'm pretty sure it was
Holly as the first mayor.
M.N:
R.V:
(
Do you remember the ferry that used to come across?
Two ferrys that came across, thats how we traveled to Buffalo,
mostly to see our relatives that lived over there on the west side
of Buffalo, my Mothers and Fathers family lived on the west side,
2.
�(
R.V:
There brothers and sisters and my Grandfather was over there too
and a... there was two ferry boats, that traveled in the summer,
in the winter time they didn't travel after the first ice came down,
you wondered if you were going to make it or not, because one time
they didn't, the boat went down and floated all the ways to the
International and then they had the Dummy, it was a little train,
we traveled over on that, that 4nded up in Black Rock and we had
relatives over in that area, so we used to go across on the Dummy.
M.N:
Well the Peace Bridge must have made a big difference?
R.V:
Well the Peace Bridge was the death knell of the ferry, when the
Peace Bridge was completed the ferry only ran for a year after
that.
M.N:
When you were a young man did you ever get a chance to get up to
Erie Beach?
R.V:
Yes, I rode the old Erie Beach
..•
what did they call that
•••
they
had a name for that train.
M.N:
(
Sand Fly?
R.V:
The Sand Fly train, they would go from the ferry dock, just south
of the ferry dock and it was right around where Charlie Sullivan
sold fish and chips stand use to be and it ran all the way along
the lake up to Erie Beach.
M.N:
Did they charge anything for the ride?
R.V:
I think there was a small fee, I know there was a fee on the ferry
and also on the Dummy but it wasn't very great we had a bus service
too, old Peachy was the bus driver, it stopped right on Central Ave.
and Jarvis St., on the corner was Mike Purpura, he was also one
of the orignals that landed in Fort Erie, Purpuras, Passero, and
the Valvos were the first Italian familys in Fort Erie and Mike
Purpura used to be a barber on the corner and there used to be his
Dad, old John Purpura, we used to call him John Banana, him and
my Dad, I've got a picture of them, my Dad played the guitar and
both of them had beautiful voices, they used to get the guitar and
sit out front and sing, they would sing old Italian songs, the reason
they called him John Banana was he had a little cart he used to push
around selling banana's, he get banana's and go from house to house
(
selling them.
M.N:
The horse and wagon was a lot more common then?
3
�R.V:
(
Yes, it was all horse and wagon, I remember my Dad when he bought
his first car and got it in the drive way and we had a barn in the
back which was the garage, and he went to put it in the garage
and he ended out side, through the back and into the back alley,
and that was the end of his driving days.
M.N:
Getting back to Erie Beach, do you remember anything about the
beach when it was open?
R.V:
Yes, its very similar to Crystal Beach, they had the roller coaster
there, picnic benches, and stands for people, they had the dance
hall, I like to dance and they had a big dance hall there, in fact
the foundation is still there, they just tore it down recently, they
had a big swimming pool out there.
M.N:
Then you must remember Crystal Beach then?
R.V:
Yes, very well.
M.N:
Did you see any good groups out there?
R.V:
Yes I did, in my younger days and danced to them too, the name
of the band I can't
(
•••
there was a couple up there we went to, in
fact I was courting my wife then, we used to go up there dancing.
M.N:
It was a nice place?
R.V:
It was beautiful place, I used to have a in there, you bought tickets
for a nickel, I worked at the Beach for one summer, Crystal Beach
so I had a in, I'd turn the ticket, I'd only buy one ticket all night,
I knew the guy and he wouldn't take the ticket so it would last me
all night that was one of the best dance floors around, it was a
beautiful dance floor, it was just like floating on air when you were
dancing. Yes, Crystal Beach was quite a spot, but thats the only thing
I went up there for, I worked there in a resturant as you went into
the Beach.
M.N:
So you remember the old Canadiana?
R.V:
Yes, I rode on her, we used to drive over to Buffalo leave our car
there, go over on the Canadiana, dance on the way over, go to the
dance hall, never took any rides in, we would dance and that was
it, get back on the Canadiana and then drove home.
M.N:
(
The Canadiana had bands too?
R.V:
They had some name bands on it.
M.N:
Oh really, I didn't realize, I thought they might have a small band.
R.V:
No they had some good bands on her and I'm sure they were name
bands.
4
�M.N:
(
I've heard about the midnight cruises...
R.V:
I didn't go on any of those, I think it was Ted Warring, was it Ted
Warring played Crystal Beach one year.
M.N:
Back in Fort Erie, what we call Fort Erie now, there was just the
race track, pretty well wasn't there for entertainment.
R.V:
The Race Track and the Rail Road were everybody worked, in the
summer time at the track, a lot of us young fellows worked up there,
but the rail road was a going concern.
M.N:
Fort Erie was actually a rail road town.
R.V:
My Dad used to be a shoe maker, he made shoes and he repaired
them and a ... a lot of rail road guys would come in and get there
shoes fixed, he also made shoes for a couple of cripple people who
where in the town of Fort Erie, he made shoes for them, but they had
to have certain shoes, actualy his trade was a shoe maker.
M.N:
What did you think of the ... when they amalgamated Fort Erie,
was that considered a good deal, did the north end resent it or
I
the south end resent it?
R.V:
(
There was a little, a little friction there, but I don't think there
was any resentment as you would call it, everyone was happy when
it did happen, you could see it coming and it was going to happen
well it showed when they had the big display on the corner of Jarvis
and Central, where my Dad had a store, they burnt the old town
of Fort Erie, it was quite a celabration that night, so I think people
them selves where really happy that it happened.
M.N:
How did the police force work then?
R.V:
Well they became one police force, there was two police forces, there
was two seperate areas, there was a fire department at the south end
and at the north end, one was called Bridgeburg and the other Fort Erie,
but now there named or what ever, number 1 or 2 what ever and I think
they covered the areas good, the police department and I'm pretty sure
they where happy that it all became one, they had the one police depart
ment down there, I think it was on Queen St. and that was where the
town hall was and there was one on Jarvis St..
M.N:
In the south end, would that have been Andy Griffin?
R.V:
Andy Griffin was the chief once and Carter was chief, he was before Andy
and Ketch was after Carter and then Chirp Matthews.
M.N:
Lets go to another phase of Fort Erie history, do you remember anything
about the days of prohibition or boot legging?
5
�R.V:
(
Yes I do, I certainly do, my brother who is now passed away, drove
one of the boats over one night and every so often they would raid
the docks down on the bottom of Dufferin St., between Dufferin,
Phipp and Jarvis, was all the docks down there and I was quite
a swimmer at that time and a
•••
of course they would throw
the booze over board and this one day I took my wagon down
there and a burlap bag and I came home with a burlap bag full
of Scotch Whiskey, my Dad took one look and he said " I think
I know where you got that" I said "Pa,you know where I got it
its all yours".
M.N:
That must have been quite a time?
R.V:
Old Russel Smith, he passed away, he was quite a swimmer, he'd
go out there nearly every day and he'd swim under water and
come up with a bottle, he'd come up with half a dozen bottles
nearly every day, he'd swim under water and come up with the
bottles, it was good Scotch Whiskey.
M.N:
R.V:
(
That would have been very expensive at that time?
Prohibition days, it sure was.
M.N:
I didn't realize there was that much activity down there?
R.V:
There was quite a bit of activity down there, docks down there
had all kinds of boats, down along Jarvis and Dufferin.
M.N:
Was there any kind of police control over it?
R.V:
No they would get a complaint and they would go and raid them
every body would throw everything over board and the police
would to and that was it, thats all there was to it, they would
really load a boat up and away they would go over to the American
side, I never did go over on the boats, my older brother did.
M.N:
And they would just unload on the other side?
R.V:
Unload on the other side and bring the boats back.
M.N:
So that must have injected some money into the community,
at a tough time?
R.V:
It injected some money into my brother's pocket.
M.N:
We have had a tough time finding out about that period, because
so many of the old guys are gone and they didn't leave a record.
R.V:
They wouldn't leave a record of that, thats for sure, but I do
remember when they paved Jarvis St. too , they ran the sewer
down Jarvis, the first sewer was on Jarvis St., they had to blast
because of all the rock and this one day they blasted and they
didn't have enough cover on and a big rock came through my Dad's
front window.
6
�R.V:
They paid for it but there was a lot of commotion, they had
to board it all up.
M.N:
Okay, we will carry on
.•.
the great depression, you must remem
ber that in town, it must have been pretty hard on the area?
R.V:
Yes, we went through the depression but we also had
•.•
my
Dad was n't getting much money repairing shoes, I can still re
member the rail road men coming in and giving my Dad a watch,
a rail road watch, would you hold that till I get some money,
get my shoes fixed, the guy would bring in some money my Dad
would give him back the rail road watch. He had a lot of watches
in the till.
M.N:
Do you think because every one was in the same boat made it a little
better?
R.V:
I think so, things where rough, but we got by.
M.N:
World War 2 must have helped bring the town out of
R.V:
Oh it did, Fleet was starting to go then, they where making
?
•••
the Fleet trainer then and a few other parts for the bombers,
people came flocking into Fleet aircraft and they where making
(
stuff for the war, they built that ladies hostel over there where
Our Lady of Victory School is now, there was a lot of work in
Fort Erie so things did prosper.
M.N:
That was called Winston Hall wasn't it?
R.V:
Winston Hall.
M.N:
Was Horton Steel going strong before the war?
R.V:
It would go in phases, they where busy and then as soon as winter
came along you'd get laid off and you where off for the winter
and soon as spring started you go back into work because I worked
there for 3 years, thats what happened to me, I started to work
there in 36,37, and every winter I got laid off untill 1939 I went
to work for the gas company. So the war was in the 40's so things
where going pretty good.
M.N:
After the war alot more people started coming into town, did
you notice a big change, did the town start to grow?
R.V:
M.N:
(
The town started to grow, when did regional government come in?
Ten years ago?
R.V:
The town did grow for a little while, then it stopped, I don't
think it was going that great and now it could start again, I'm
sure that it will, I'm pretty sure once that new plant gets built
up there at Fleet you'll see a change, you'll see the town grow.
7
�M.N:
(
Different mayors in town
•.•
fron interviewing different people
they seem to find some mayors where better than others, Jack
Teal seems to stand out, a good mayor, does anyone stand out
for you.
R.V:
Jack Teal. Well of course where the same age, you get him an
interview.
M.N:
Yes, where thinking of it.
R.V:
Jack and I have been friends for years and he definitly set out,
he was for the people and I think he did good for the town, more
so then any mayor I know of course as I say the first mayors I
was young and not interested in politics more sports minded.
M.N:
Then men like Herb Guess who where more on personality than
actions I gather. What do you think of regional government, do
you think it did well for the town?
R.V:
No I don't think it did.
M.N:
That seems to be a common opinion among people we've inter
viewed that it hasn't been a benifit.
R.V:
(
I don't think its been a benifit to the town at all, I think its been
a detriment to our town.
M.N:
In what way?
R.V:
Well taxes and a ... you can't get things done the way you want
them done you have to beat around the bush.
M.N:
People have mentioned ... when the town was on its own, that
you could go to town hall and talk to the mayor or talk to any
body and get sort of an answer...
R.V:
It was more of a family, more of a open group, you had our own
town people running the town, when you get into regional you
can't get to them, I think regional Niagara is more concerned
with Niagara Falls and St. Catharines then they are with Fort Erie,
there down there and can take care of themselves, unfortunatly
Niagara region governs us and we have bide by their laws and
taxes and everything else.
M.N:
The people we've talked too feel that way. Do you think we can
ever get away from regional government?
R.V:
(
I know a lot of places are talking about getting away from it,
wether they can or not I don't know.
M.N:
Do you think with growing up in the town
••.
you've seen the town
develop in different ways, that Fort Erie should go to tourism or
to industry?
8
�R.V:
M.N:
(
Go to both.
So we can get the best of two worlds?
R.V:
Correct, they should go to industry and they should go to tourism,
thats my personal feelings because industry, where going to need
industry in this town to make it grow and its not going to grow
unless you get that industry in.
M.N:
How can we do it with tourism?
R.V:
Tourism is not making it grow its promoting your town, putting
your town out to the people around the area, an area outside our
area where people coming into the town exsposing the town
and showing people what a nice little community on the Niagara
river and also close to Lake Erie.
M.N:
Theres been alot of talk about cleaning up Lake Erie and the
Niagara
•••
R.V:
I don't think our section is that bad, the lower part, granted yes
the lower Niagara going into Lake Ontario they have most of
the pollution what ever you want to call it, I don't think the top
part of the Niagara River and Lake Erie is that bad.
(
M.N:
Is there anythingin the history or the time you where brought up
in Fort Erie or significant in the history of the town?
R.V:
The only thing that I would say is that when it went regional
I thought it was going to be great and the town was going to
grow, expand, Fort Erie was going to be on the map and that
didn't happen, unfortunately.
M.N:
Years ago when the town was basicaly just a small town, people
came for the race track or mostly passing through
••.
the border
crossing and that, do you think the people stayed more then they
do now, now they seem to zip up the Q.E. W. and thier gone,
R.V:
Oh your talking about ...
M.N:
Before the Queenie...
R.V:
The travellers and that.
M.N:
Do you think the people stayed around more?
R.V:
I think they did but a ... the population has grown in the areas
around us and now they get off the Peace Bridge and they hit
the Queenie and thier gone.
M.N:
That seems to be another common complaint. Where Crystal
Beach had a steady summer residence and they don't seem to
have that any more.
R.V:
fu
they don't because now you go up there now and all those
summer homes are in rough shape and their vacant.
Q
�R.V:
(
Where before they where filled.
M.N:
Would people stay the summer then, would they stay the whole
summer?
R.V:
Alot of them did.
M.N:
Would they commute?
R.V:
They stayed all summer, they still do, theres a few who still
commute back and forth, I have relatives own a place up on
Bay Beach and they come over every summer, they own the
place, they go back and forth to Buffalo.
M.N:
Do you think that something like Erie Beach or Crystal Beach
and its orignal idea could make a come back in this area ?
R.V:
Erie Beach is gone there, Crystal Beach could and it looks like
it is and it looks definitely going to be going back to Crystal
Beach because there getting the Canadiana back, they hope
to have it in the water and travel ing back and forth, which
I do hope happens and when it does happen your going to see
Crystal Beach roll again, thats my feelings anyway.
M.N:
(
How about the race track, theres been a lot of talk about the
track only being open for a few days and then they talk about
closing it?
R.V:
Well thats been something for some time and a I myself do not
think the race track will close, in fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised
to see the 3 day meet expanded, because the B meet
•••
I've
got a feeling thier going to expand it to more then 3 days.
M.N:
Which will mean more people coming into town and spending
more money
R.V:
•••
And more people working, I'd like to see it happen and I think it
could happen, talking to some of the race track people, they
would like to see it happen, they like the B races, they got B
horses here and they don't like to take them here and down
to Finger Lakes or the other B
.•.
they would like to see them
longer here, more racing days.
M.N:
How is the track different now and say when you where a boy,
is it a lot different?
R.V:
Oh yes, they never had the infield
•••
in fact this is one of the
nicest tracks in Ontario, its beautiful out there.
M.N:
When you were young, did they have the racing every day then?
10
�R.V:
(
They had the racing every day but they only had 7 races, they
had it every day and only a certain number of weeks every
summer and that was it, then it was every day, Monday to Satur
day.
M.N:
Did they get good crowds?
R.V:
They got good crowds.
M.N:
Before the Peace Bridge how did the people get up there to
the track?
R.V:
They would take the ferry and the dummy, the train from Tor
onto used to pull right in along side the track, the tracks are
still there, the spur is still there, that train would come in, it
was a Toronto train it would pick up people all the way along,
and they would wait untill the train got there before the races
started even if the train was lat�, the races where supposed to
start at 1:00 o'clock and if that train hadn't arrived yet the races
wouldn't start untill that train got there.
M.N:
Would that be up there where the G.T.R. is?
R.V:
The track went right beside the G.T.R. it went right into the
(
race track, it went right in there, a sidewalk all the way down,
and the people... went into the track, the train itself, he'd unÂ
hook and turn around and come back in and then back to Toronto
they'd stay all day ... a special train for the races and then there
was the ferry, it brought cars, cars on the ferry, you see there
was cars and passengers on that ferry.
M.N:
Somebody was mentioning that on the ferry once in awhile they
would have people who would play the guitar or something like
that?
R.V:
Thats true, they would have a little get together, the guys would
play guitar or somsbody would play the violin, just for... on the ferry.
M.N:
Somebody had mentioned it. We have found in talking about the
town that the hotels seem to have an interesting part in the history
of the town, the Bucket on Courtwright St., the Barnea House, the
Queens was a old place, the King Eddy is a old place...
R.V:
You know the Royal Hotel on the bottom of Jarvis St..
M.N:
Does that go way back, would you remember any one who had
owned that?
R.V:
I remember the Comptons owning the Bucket.
M.N:
Was that Matt and Marry Compton?
11
�R.V:
(
Yes and Mr. Primo owned the Grand Trunk, Mike Tartaglia wife's
parents owned the Grand Trunk, thats way back.
M.N:
Was that a place pretty well for rail road men to drink?
R.V:
Rail road men would stop at the Grand Trunk Hotel and the
races, it thrived when the races came, that was there busy
time, the odd rail road guy would stay there.
M.N:
I remember as a boy going down there [ Barnea House] and think
ing that you had to have bib overalls and a cap to get in there.
R.V:
They used to go around there, where the station is today and
cross over to the Barnea House, the Bucket those two.
M.N:
Some people have mentioned that the Central Ave. bridge made
a big change ?
R.V:
Yes, it sure
•..
it connects the two areas together, easier to get
across, before you had to go across, then they stopped going
across the tracks, Crook St. used to go across there.
M.N:
Then the only other way was along the Blvd.?
R.V:
The Blvd., yes, or you could go out by the subway, a lot of trucks
couldn't get through the subway.
(
M.N:
Do you think Jarvis Street is going to die as a commercial center?
R.V:
No I don't think so.
M.N:
It seems to have a up stage and then a down stage...
R.V:
It does go up and down, I agree with you there.
M.N:
The Mall must have an effect on it?
R.V:
The Mall have had an effect on it but theres a few stores coming
back to Jarvis St. of course if you get a few more fires it might
die, I don't think it will.
M.N:
Is there anything that you feel about the town, you would like
to leave for historical sake or for your descendants, was it a
good life in this town, a good town?
R.V:
I've lived here all my life and my family is still here and the
people here are close knit, I've heard people say that once they
come into the town of Fort Erie and they get to know the people
they stay, they don't leave, there must be something here thats
keeping them here, I think its a ideal place to be but I do hope
that there can be more industries in the town of Fort Erie and
l
we'll make the town thrive, we need that.
M.N:
Do you think where going to loose anything with the town getting
bigger?
R.V:
No I don't think we will, the only way we can expand is by going
12
�(
R.V:
I
west there is no sense in going south or north, thats residential
west you can expand there is a lot of room for it and with this
M. M. B. plant coming in it will definitely help, they got to hire
people there and its going to help and I can see it might get
bigger as the years go by.
M.N:
Thank you Mr. Valvo.
(
13
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Crystal Beach
Subject
The topic of the resource
Crystal Beach, Ontario
Description
An account of the resource
Select historical photos and documents digitized from the Fort Erie local history and Louis McDermott collections
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
FEPL -LH - Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fort Erie Public Library and Louis McDermott
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Michael Near
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Ross Valvo
Location
The location of the interview.
Fort Erie Public Library Centennial Branch
Original Format
If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral History - Valvo, Ross
Description
An account of the resource
Provided here is Ross Valvo's interview. He discusses such topics as:
Bridgeburg
Schools
North end
Politics and government
Ferries
Peace Bridge
Erie Beach
Transportation
Amalgamation
Recreation
Law Enforcement
Bootlegging
The Depression
Fleet
Factories
Horton Steel
Peace Bridge
Crystal Beach Amusement Park
Erie Beach
Crystal Beach
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Fort Erie Public Library Local History Collection
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
May 28, 1985
1980s
1985
amalgamation
Bridgeburg
Crystal Beach
Crystal Beach amusement park
Erie Beach
factories and industry
ferries
Fleet
Fort Erie
Great Depression
Horton Steel
north end
Oral history
peace bridge
politics and government
recreation
schools
transcripts
transportation