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                  <text>Michael Near interviewing Mrs. Rita R Near at her home at 139 Bertie St.

M.N:

When Â·didÂ·you come to Canada Mrs. Near?

R.N.

1940.

M.N:

Why did you come to Canada ?

R.N:

I married a Canadian and came here to live.

M.N:

What was the town like then ?

R.N:

Well it was a good deal smaller thcsn it is now, about 3,000 people
lived here, a very nice town, a railroad town, the railroad was the
main industry then.

M.N:

You lived in Fort Erie or what you would call Fort Erie at that
time?

R.N:
M.N:

And then it became Fort Erie ?

R.N:

Yes, and Amigari was also incorporated into the town of Fort Erie.

M.N:

That would have been called the west end ?

R.N:

(

Yes, it had been Bridgeburg up to

Yes, what would be called the west end.

M.N:

Did you ever use the ferry that came across from Buffalo ?

R.N:

Oh yes, many times, when I first came here I was working in Buffalo

1936.

I used to come across every day and it was rather difficult because
at that time Canada was on double day-light savings time, there was
a 2 hour time difference. Canada was already in the war and the
States wasn't.

M.N:

Was there rationing then ?

R.N:

Oh yes, I don't remember if it had started just yet, I believe it was
a little later. At that time it was the phony war, even though England
had. been bombed but every body thought it would blow over, it
wouldn't last long.

M.N:

What was mostly rationed during the war ?

R.N:

Meat, butter, sugar, that was about it, there wasn;t a lot of things
rationed here, many things were rationed in the states.

M.N:

At that time how was Fort Erie, say ethnicaly.

R.N:

Not nearly as diverse as its since become, Scotch, Irish, a few
Italians, I was a Catholic and at that time only 10% of the popÂ­
ulation of Canada was Catholic, it changed greatly during the
and after the war, mostly after the war when people from other
countries started coming here.

M.N:

During the war there was a large influx of people into Fort Erie ?

1

�R.N:

Oh yes, people came here to work, Fleet was very busy, they hired
many women, because the men were in the military service and thats

(

when they. built Winston Hall the residence for these women.

M.N:

Thats were Saint Michaels Church is now ?

R.N:

Yes, later it became Our Lady of Victory School but it burnt, it
was just a wooden structure and it had been built rather hastily
to house women who came here to work from other places and
Saint Michaels was built here.

M.N:

Do you think a lot of these people stayed after the war ?

R.N:

I think most of them did, many of these girls married local res
idents, especially as the fellows came back from the service.

M.N:

What was the biggest hard ship during the war ?

R.N:

Not knowing if your men were dead or alive. I Â·don;t think we had
any real hard ship, there was plenty of work, the few things that
were rationed you could do with out, there was plenty of other
things to eat, you never went hungry.

M.N:

Was the morale of the people good then ?

R.N:

Yes, I think so, especialy after the States got into the war.

(

Canada, the States and England of course pulled together and
I don't think we ever doubted we would win the war.

M.N:

When the was over, say, after the first war there was a recession
was there something like that after the war

R.N:

?

No I don't really think so, there may have been a little drop of
course the airplane factories- my two sisters worked in an air-craft
plant in Buffalo and-on V.J. Day everyone just dropped thier tools
and walked out they had no more jobs,Â·! becaus::: they were making
war-planes.

M.N:

You never had any t'buble because of being an American citizen
living in .... ?

R.N:

Oh no, no I've been treated wonderfully in Canada.

M.N:

It was mentioned that a lot of women when they were pregnant
had to go to Buffalo to have there baby, there wasn't a hospital
in Fort Erie. When did Douglas Hospital open ?

R.N:

I believe that must have been in the thirties because the hospital
was here when I came in

1940

and women went to Buffalo simply

because it was closer then Niagara Falls were the other hospital

(

was.

M.N:

Did Fort Erie seem to go through an economic boom aft er the
war?

2

�R.N:

(
I

I wouldn't say a boom, the rail roads were very busy and Fleet
held on, they were making war planes, but they got other contracts and the Horton was busy things didn;t seem to bad, at
that time, of course everything was rail road, people weren't
shipping by plane, for one thing it wasn't economicaly feasable
then gradualy the planes took over and the rail road started
dying.

M.N:

When did you think the rail road died in Fort Erie?

R.N:

Well, I think they closed Victoria Station in the sixties, it was
moved to Montrose at the Falls, but business had been dropping
off, they used to be - I don;t want to guess, I think there were 40
trains a day going through Fort Erie a day and then it dropped

ï¿½

to only a few, t en there was practicaly none.

M.N:

That was steam engine ?

R.N:

Yes.

M.N:

You lived on Courtwright St.near the main line over the International was it a inconv eniance?

(

R.N:

It was dirty, the water tower was across the street from us and
the the trains would stop and take on water, there was a lot of
dirt in the coal, at that time they just shovelled the coal into the
engines to make them go.

M.N:

Speaking of coal, when did you change over to a gas furnace ?

R.N:

Well, when we first moved up here in 1945 it was a coal furnace
but that was very inconv enient, coal became more and more
ex pensive, I think we changed over in 1950.

M.N:

Do you notice its more convenient?

R.N:

Oh yes, we use

to have to go down- we'd come home late and

the furnace would be right out and you'd have to go down and shake
it down and get it started, then wait till the coal gas burned off
then you put more coal on the - and put the damper down and all
this when you were very tired and cold- it was very inconvÂ·enentso the gas was wonderful compared to that.

M.N:
R.N:

(

During the war did you listen to the radio ?
Oh yes, always, because every day of course there was news, there
was many correspondents over there, you got the news almost as
it happened, you've heard recently about Ernie Plye on the television and Edward R. Muroe and all those correspondents, there
was news every day, good or bad, it was a bad time, war is a terrible
time and the young fellows, its always the young ones who diethats terrible.

3

�M.N:
R.N:

\

There was quite a few men who left Fort Erie ?
Oh yes, many men left from Fort Erie.and we have our few heroes
John Dietrich the first fellow from Fort Erie killed in the war,
and Jimmy Martin, he flew a burning plane back from Europe
across the channel to save his men and he was badly burnt, he
kept them from falling into the hands ofthe Germans, I consider
that a hero. Incidently he's the Father of Doug Martin who now
has the jewerly store, that his Grand father started.

M.N:

Vfiere's that,on Jarvis Street ?

R.N:

Gibsons- Mr. Gibson was a watch maker and he was the Grand
father of Doug Martin.

M.N:

Would you consider Jarvis St. to be called the commercial centre?

R.N:

Yes, though the south end was very busy at that time, there .were
a lot more stores and not so many resturants as there are now
and of course the people down there shopped, and there was the
Post Office, you had to go and pick up your mail.

M.N:
R.N:

(

There was no mail delivery ?
No, not untill, I forget just when it started, around

;

1948,

the first

carriers were Frank Allen and Gus Sally and I worked with both
of them for many years.

M.N:

How long did you work at the Post Office?

R.N:

Thirteen years.

M.N:

So you have noticed a big change ?

R.N:

Oh yes, its so built up and stretched out and its still a nice town,
I like it here.

M.N:

Do you think some improvements could have made in the town
planning ?

R.N:

Oh, I don't know I think they did pretty well, they went out towards
Cresce.ntPark, were theres a lot of nice land and it was a bit circumscrived up in the north end, it ended at the river, I think all
in all they haven't done toobad, they connected the town with the
Central Ave. bridge, that wasn't there, so you had to go all the
way around, that sort of kept .the town separated.

M.N:

When you came over here to live, did you notice a division between
the people who lived in Bridgeburg and Fort Erie?

(

R.N:

Well actualy they were two separate towns ?

M.N:

And they were considered two seporate towns ?

R.N:

Not in

1940

the town uptill

1936

and Amigari considered

itself sepï¿½rate.

4

�M.N:

Did the town make any - say the political structure - there was mayors
considered better than others - Jack Teal is considered one of the
best mayors, then for personality and being outgoing there was
Herb Guess, did you know any of them?:

R.N:

I knew Herb Guess slightly and I knew Mr. Teal and he was always
going- trying to make things better for the town. I only knew Mr.
Guess slightly but I understand he was a good mayor, he was in
for a long time.

M.N:
_)"

Did your economic conditions pick up, sort of grow with the town,
do you notice the change, more cars, television, the convenences
we take for granted, do you believe theyv'e helped?

R.N:

Oh certainly, well take a washer and dryer I didn't have that when
my kids were little and_ you washed every day and heating the
water and rinsing one thing or the other, put them out on the .line
then drag them back in and if you left them out, overnight on Court-Â­
wright St. they would be all black because of the soot from the
trains, so now you just throw them into one machine and then throw
them into another and you have your television- I don't go out

(

much, its a lot of entertainment.

M.N:

The other thing we mentioned was the ice-box?

R.N:

Oh yes, that was an awful nu5ance, you couldn't keep anything
froze it thawed in a couple of daysbecause the ice would melt
and in hot weather the ice melted more quickly.

M.N:

How often did the ice man come?

R.N:

Oh they delivered about 3 times a week, you put a sign up in the
window- 25,50,75, and a 100 on different corners, so you'd turn
the sign to what you wanted 25 or what ever, he would bring that
in but lots of times it would be all gone before he would come
again and then you stuff- you couldn't keep ice cream or anything
like that in the house. I often think when my Mother in Law would
have family dinners at tye last minute some one would run down
to Corrnells Drug Store to get the ice cream for desert because
otherwise it wouldn't keep.

M.N:

(

How much was a block of ice?

R.N:

I don't really remember, it wasn't very dear, I think it was a quarter
for 50 pounds.

M.N:

Was that manufactured in Fort Erie, the ice?

5

�(

R.N:

Oh yes, up were the arena is now, that was a ice-house, George

ï¿½ a big ice house up there and it was quite a thriving

Vassey ha.

business, especialy in the su111mer they delivered up to the
summer cottages, up around the beach.

M.N:

Was this a big refrigeration unit up there to make the ice?

R.N:

I don't know how you exactly make ice they made it I know that.

M.N:

Were you ever in Crystal Beach during the big band era?

R.N:

Oh yes, it had such a beautiful ballroom, I don't remember
exactly which band we danced to I think it was Woody Herman
it was very romantic and bubbly, at night the moon on the lakeÂ·
and the Crystal Beach boat ride was beautiful.

M.N:

They used to go on cruises?

R.N:

Yes they used to go on cruises,

3

hours every Saturday night, Â·We

used to dance and it was lovely, it was so cool.

M.N:

Crystal Beach had a reputation for its big bands, they had the
best.....?

R.N:

(

Oh, some were wonderful.

M.N:

Do you know any names?

R.N:

I know Benny Goodman appeared there, Glen Miller some of the
others, I don't remember, it was a long time ago but the big timers
were all small timers at one time, they were travelling around,
taking gigs when they could get them.

M.N:

In our research we've found that prior to the big band era, square
dancing was popular. Did you ever square dance?

R.N:

That was my second home but that was in Buffalo, that was Grant
and Ferry a lot of Canadians went there, we really enjoyed the
Sod Busters and Gully Jumpers, it was wonderful and great fun,
Square dancing sounds corny now but it really is a lot of fun.

M.N:

Was there some popular bands in squaredancing?

R.N:

No they were mostly local out fits, for instance the one that play
ed was a man and his wifeand then his son, his wife played the
piano, the fellow who played the trump et, he worked at General
Electric with my father. So they were just local people, they play
ed very well and we enjoyed it.

(

M.N:

The Canadiana were would you get that?

R.N:

It was at the foot of -well I guess a street that isn't there anymore
Commercial St. down near the foot of main St. in Buffalo and
you went down this little side street and got the boat.

6

�R.N:

(

-it took-I don't know how long it took to get to Crystal Beach
but it was a lovely time in the summer, Buffalo was hot and then
Â·
the Lake cruises on Saturday night.

M.N:

What was on the boat itself?

R.N:

There was a big room for dancing and there was a bar, people didn't
drink that much and a refreshment stand, it was a pretty big boat.

M.N:

How many people...... ?

R.N:

Oh I don;t know but it must have been hundreds. I think there was two
of them, the Americana and the Canadiana, its the Canadiana
they're. trying to refurbish now.

M.N:

How much would a cruise like that cost?

R.N:

Maybe

.50Â¢,

of course that. was a. lot of money ip those days, at

the time I was making

$12.50

a week, but the money seemed to

go farther then, for some reason.

M.N:

The ferry was only a nickel?

R.N:

The ferry cost a nickel, and some times they had entertainment
of a sort on there, I don't think they were paid, they were just
local talent, people would throw nickels in or what ever- for one

(

thing the trip was only

10-15

minutes to cross the river,it was a

easy way to get across, I took the ferry all the time when I was
working over there, just walk up to Niagara St. and get the bus

M.N:

How long would it take for the trip?

R.N:

Oh as I say

15

minutes. Its only less then a mile across that river

of course they were fighting the current too.

M.N:

In the winter, if the ferry couldn't get across was there another
way to get across before the Peace Bridge?

R.N:

Well by the rail road bridge, but the ice never seemed to stop it,
there was never that much ice in the river, the ice would all be
in lake and then in the spring it would go down the river.

M.N:

Do you remember anything about building the Peace Bridge?

R.N:

No, at that time I was only

12

years old, small girls don't pay that

much attention to such things. I do remember seeing pictures in
the paper- the Prince of Wales opened the bridge and of course
there was a big improvement because it was so easy for transÂ­

(

portion to cross the river.

M.N:

So you came to Fort Erie when it was already incorporated?
Do you remember who was mayor when you came?

7

�R.N:

No I don't- it could have been Mr. Price, he was mayor for quite
a while,but there again I didn't pay attention.

M.N:

What about the police force?

R.N:

There was two men, Chief Andy Griffin and his assistant.

M.N:

Do you know who that would be? Chirp Matthews, does that ring
a bell?

R.N:

I think Mr. Matthews was a rail-road policeman.

M.N:

Our information has said that he got the job because he owned a
motorcycle?

R.N:

Maybe he did, Â·but I remember, this would be about 1942 because
my little boy would be about 2, drifted away from home and I was
frantic, running up and down the streets, looking for him ?I!d someÂ­
one had found him and took him to the police station, so I went
over to the police station and it was closed, Chief Griffin had
gone home for lunch and he took the little boy home, so I went
to his house on High. St.and collected my little boy but at that
time they only had 2 policemen and they closed down the station
at lunch time, of course there wasn't much crime either, the

(

Â· Â·

occasional drunk.... speeding driver some thing like that.

M.N:

What about the Fire Department?

R.N:

They didn't have this fire hall.

M.N:

Thats the fire hall on Bertie St. ?

R.N:

Yes, thats compa.rativly new, and the one on Jarvis is new, but
on Bertie was a sort of little shack were they kept the fire-engine
in there, but they always had a fire department.

M.N:

How big would you say the town was then? .

R.N:

I think there was 3,000 people and it was not so spread out as it
is now- its built up so far towards Cresent Park, at that time there
was a few summer cottages out there now its homes and every
thing and even since the war, what they called war time houses
they all went up then.

M.N:

That was because of Fleet and Horton?

R.N:

Yes,they brought in people to work and the new churches, we have
several new churches around here

8

�(

R.N:

Theï¿½Â·re all new, the Luther an and the Baptist, the big Cathedral
on the Blvd. that was St. Paul, St. Mike's was a little church on
Gilmore Road, and St. Joesph was a little church on GarrisoJjl, now
of course the new St. Michaels- what I consider new- in the last

20 or 30 years.
M.N:

When did the first Catholic Church open in Fort Erie?

R.N:

Oh, there was one here when I came, I don't know.

M.N:

Where was that located?

R.N:

That would be St. Joesph, I think so, because that cemetary is very
old.

M.N:

Did you notice any prejudice towards Americans?

R.N:

Not a great deal, I think a lot of people didn't know many Americans,
I don't think there was as much prejudice as there is now, you here
"these damn Yankees" I say it my self some times-when theres a
great deal of traffic-lets not get into that.

M.N:
R.N:

Yes, pretty well, before the war, just a nice peaceful little town.

M.N:

Every one knew each other?

R.N:

Oh yes, my Mother in Law knew just about evel'j one in town.

M.N:

You mentioned she never locked her doors?

R.N:

(

The town was pretty isolated at that time, with in itself?

I never knew her to lock her doors, and that was strange to me
because I was raised in the city, were you locked your doors and
pulled your shades down when it got dark. She thought I was kind
of weird because I pulled my shades down.

M.N:

The town, do you think it can develop much more?

R.N:

Not unless we can get more industry, we don't have all that much,
the rail road has practicaly died, we have Fleet, I think Horton
is safe, there just isn't a great deal, they could attract some new
industry, that would be great.

M.N:

You worked in the Post Office we mentioned before, do you know
any thing about the history of the Post Office, was it always there
on Jarvis St.?

R.N:

(

I don't really know, I think theres a corner stone there thats marked
in the thirties, but I think when I first came here and I looked on there
it was a small post office on Jarvis St. and then it expanded in to
the big municipal building as it is now, because I remember they
just had a tier of boxes, before they had any letter carriers and

9

�(

\

R.N:

the one in the south end was just a store and there also was the
boxes and of course when we moved up here to Bertie St. I used
to walk down every day to get the mail.

M.N:

Do you remember some of the stores down on Jarvis St.?

R.N:

There was a lot of drug stores that we don't have now, there is
one now since the Vietnamese came in, there used to be Lonsbury
Cornell's, and Camns, and then theres a great big old A&amp;P, and
Woolworths, thats gone, and Stedmans, and Eatons is gone, quite
a few stores and there was a few butcher shops, there gone, they
just sold meat, reall old time butcher shops, which were nice, and
there was a great big store at the back of the corner of Jarvis and
Central - a couple of big houses there- darn, I forget the name
of the people who owned it- Young- but it was a great big old
house and store, it was a confectionary and there all gone, torn
down.

M.N:

Did you do a lot of shopping in Buffalo?

R.N:

At one time I did, childrens clothes were much cheaper, and customs
didn't seem as strict as they are now, and the dollar wasclose to

(

par which made a big difference and people used to go over and
buy a few things- but you really can't do that any more, it cost
you to much.

M.N:

How about the Fort Erie Race Track, did you ever have a chance
to go up to the Fort Erie Race Track in the forties and fifties?

R.N:

Oh yes, the main entrance was on Catharine St. and there was a
lot of houses along there and there all gone and it was sort of
countryish up there and it was one big gate you went in and of
course now the grand stand, the grand stand, its been there a
long time.

M.N:

Was it kept in good shape?

R.N:

Oh yes, its always been nice, but all this beautification was fairly
recently- the beautiful landscaping that they have now- but it was
there for a very long time, I used to go before I was married to the
Race Track.

M.N:

(

Was there other places of attraction for the Americans, to come
over for, say Erie Beach orCrystal Beach or the track?

R.N:

Well, not to me there wasn't, but to other people - my brother in
law, he speaks of when he used to come over on the ferry and have
some beer and cheese and crackers, and then go back again.

10

�R.N:

And I suppose a lot of Americans enjoy that- Canadian beer and
cheese, and there was things like street dances and so forth, it
was a good town, and it still is.

M.N:

You must notice a big difference down at the south end of Fort Erie?

R.N:

Oh heavens yes, there is so many big new resturants down town, it
used to be little shops and there was a couple of drug stores along
there and Sullivans Fish and Chips, and they were just great, and
a couple of little novelty stores, they sold candy and tobbaco and
newspapers that sort of thing, Camns drug _store and a- I forget was
it Lonsbury? - Livingstons - that was it, theres a resturant there
now, but they were little wooden places, a dry good store- Youngs,
and the post office, and the theatre,

M.N:

Who owned that theatre?

R.N:

I believe Ziffs and it was a lovely movie theatre and there was one
at the north end, the Bellard, were Don Dean's lot is now, but I
guess movies then were not that big, they started to die out when
television came in, and they turned the one down here into a bowl

(

ing alley.

M.N:

Do you notice a lot of the old buildings that are gone now?

R.N:

Oh yes, so many, hardly any down in the south end- I don't
get down there very much, I went down there last summer
and I hardly reconized it, all these giant new resturants.

M.N:

Do you think its animprovement?

R.N:

I suppose in a way, it brings a lot of business to the town.

M.N:

Niagara-on-the-Lake has a very strict control over anything
that is put in, they won't allow a

ï¿½{ c..Donalds or fast foodÂ­

the'1're very tight on the question of building down there, for
the image of the town, do you think Fort Erie should go that
way?

R.N:

No I believe in free enterprise, if someone has the determination
and willing to work hard and a little money to start a business
why stop them, I don't think thats fair.

M.N:

(

There's been a few people from Fort Erie that have made it, such
as John L. Kraft, did you ever hear anything about him?

R.N:

No, I'm afraid he was before my time.

M.N:

What about Sir Harry Oakes, did you ever hear about Sir Harry
Oakes ... ?

R.N:

I heard a lot of legends.

11

�R.N:

A lot of stories, and again this was before my time.

M.N:

Any stories in particular concerning Fort Erie... ?

R.N:

(

Not really about Fort Erie, but he had some connection with the
town but that he was a bum, riding the rails, or rods, what ever
they call them and he was thrown off and at the spot he was thrown
off he discovered gold or oil or diamonds, what ever it might have
been, but as I say its a story, I'm not sure of the truth of it. He
was murdered you know they thought by his son in law, but I don't
think it was ever proven.

M.N:

I guess there's still a lot of land in the area thats still in his name?

R.N:

Oh yes, .

M.N:

What about construction of the Old Fort, do you remember anything
about that, when they worked on the Old Fort, was the i:-ort completed
by the time you came over?

R.N:

The Old Fort was there in the time of 18 12, how old do you think
lam?

M.N:

(

The fort was rebuilt in the late thirties?

R.N:

I wasn't here in the thirties.

M.N:

You mentioned you were in a beauty contest up at Erie Beach, did you
win anything?

R.N:

No I did not, only a reprimand from my Aunt Martha, when she saw
the picture in the paper.

M.N:

What was the reprimand for?

R.N:

Oh appearing in public in a bathing suit, this was 1928, I was 13 years
old, but well developed for 13, I must say.

M.N:

You notice a strong moral change?

R.N:

Oh, unbelieveable.

M.N:

Do you think its for the better?

R.N:

No I do not.

M.N:

In what way?

R.N:

Oh, there used to be some common decency, now immorality is
flaunted, I think its ridiculous.

M.N:

What would you say to the future generations, your decendants,
that may be living in this area, hundreds of years from now?

(

R.N:

Have a good time, as much as you can, and don't hurt anybody, thats
the best advice- after all these years, I've lived long enough to realize
that- life goes by very quickly- don't ever hurt anyone.

M.N:

Thats very good, with the technology we have today your decendants
will have a chance to listen to that .

12

�M.N:

So basicaly you have enjoyed living in the town?

R.N:

Oh yes, I love it here.

M.N:

i
\

Do you think that will be lost as this growth keeps going, the small
town effect?

R.N:

No not nessecarly, they seem to be getting away from cities, I know
all my sisters and brothers moved away from Buffalo. You want a little
room a little fresh air, I think you feel a little safer in a small town then
you do in a city.

M.N:

Do you think your taxes are to high?

R.N:

Oh yes, indeed I do, the water rates are out rageous.

M.N:

Do you think thats because of the expanding beaucracyÂ·in government?

R.N:

Yes, there giving them to much power, its coming more and more out
of the hands of the people and into the hands of the few, the more we
pay for water the worse it seems to get, the water is foul and not fit
to drink.

M.Nï¿½
R.N::

(

So you feel your not being reprsented in your local government?
Not truly, no.

M.N:

Thank you Mrs. Near for the interview, anything else to say?

R.N:

No I can't think of anything.

(

13

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