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This is Rose Hearn interviewing Mr. Albert Valvo in his home at
272
North Street, Fort Erie, Ontario, and the date is August 6,
1985.
R . H:
A.V:
Good morning Rose.
Could you please tell me when you were born?
A.V:
1921, March
R.H:
And could you tell me where you were born?
A.V:
I was born in Fort Erie, right on Jarvis Street.
R.H:
No w your father was in business I believe?
A.V:
Yes my fath er was a sho emaker on Jarvis Street.
R.H:
And he had his shop right on Jarvis Stre et?
A.V:
Yeah right at the top end of Jarvis Street before Central Avenue.
R.H:
Before Central, so that would be above Central right no w?
A.V:
..
Good morning Al.
R.H:
A_
That was th e business
13.
it would be towards the river side of Central
.•.
Avenue.
That was the b usiness section then.
R.H:
Did you live behind... ?
A.V:
We lived behind the store.
R.H:
Was that a busy neighbourhood then?
A.V:
It was quite busy in those days, yes that was the business se ction
I
of Fort Erie, and it was Bridgeburg in those days .
It wasn't called
Fort Erie of course it was Bridgeburg, and ea ch shop was individual,
it wasn't like nowadays.
If you wanted meat you went to a meat
store, and if you wanted groceri es you went to a grocery store, and
so on.
R.H:
And your father, where did he come f rom?
A.V:
He came from Italy, actually from Si cil y, the island off Italy down
at the boot section.
From a little town called Almanoosa which
is adjacent to Palermo a large city.
R.H:
Ho w old was he when he immigrated?
A.V:
He came over when he was sixteen years old.
R.H:
Alone?
A.V:
Alone, he came alone yeah.
He had two brothers who joined him
later, but my father settled in the States for nine years, actually
nine years, and my older brother was born over there and then he
came into Fort Erie then.
R.H:
j
Did he tell you how he came here, did he ever tell you any stories
of the ship or
•••
?
(1)
�Not really no I never heard any of those, but we know he came by
boat as it was the only way in those days before 1900. We assume
(
he came through Ellis Island as there weren't any ports in Canada
then to bring people in there. They all came through Ellis Islafi& �!''
•
and as he settled in the States, he must have came through there.
He settled around the Silver Creek area.
R.H:
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
And then he came to Fort Erie?
Then he came to Fort Erie?
And did he then set up his own business?
Yeah he set up a shoemaker's store on Jarvis Street. It was a mud
road in those days, and then it became cobblestone I think after
that.
R.H:
It became cobblestone?
A.V:
Yeah
I
guess you'd call it cobblestone, they were b ricks you know,
it was a brick road?
R.H:
Was there any sidewalks?
A.V:
I
think there were boardwalks, and then cement walks, because
as I mentioned it was a business section and they kept it up. There
were trees right in with the stores you know, and right on the streets,
(
and there'd be trees down the street too.
R.H:
Do you remember the names of any of the stores?
A.V:
Well Briggs was next to us, Briggs store and that would be towards
the river side and they sold paint, and wallpaper, and varnishes,
and so on. On the other side of us was a small fruit store owned
by the Purpura family. On the other corner there was another Purpura,
he owned a barbershop, Mike Purpura was his name. The father
was John Purpura and he was a fruit vendor.
R.H:
Was he friends with your father?
A.V:
Oh yeah they were friends with us. They had quite a large family,
and a good many of them are still in town.
R.H:
Who was the other family that was very prominant and came around
the same time as your father?
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
(
The Fredo's, the Fredo family, and the Passero family.
And you mentioned something about they used to help one another?
Yeah I think there was four Italian families then in town in those
early days, and the majority of them didn't speak English that well,
so were kind of cliquish and had to help each other over the rough
(2)
�spots. We didn't have the social benefits in those days so if you
ran into hard times you had to make your own way or help each
(
other.
R.H:
So you didn't have any community centres or things like that, like
they have now?
No, to have a little social life in your own ethnic society you would
A.V:
go to Buffalo because there would be many more people over there,
and we did that. My dad took us over every Sunday, over to Buffalo.
We'd meet other people he knew from the nine years he spent over
there you see.
R.H:
What about school, what school did you go to?
A.V:
I
went to Phipps Street School.
I
started out there and after about
four years there we used to transfer over to Wintemute school.
R.H:
Did you have to walk to school?
A. V:
Yeah we walked.
R.H:
How far would that be then?
A. V:
That would be from Jarvis Street, that would be through Courtwright
Street, across the railroad tracks, and Wintemute Street, and that
would be it, but of course you'd have to cross Lewis Street first.
(
R.H:
Was that about a mile?
A.V:
Oh yeah, a good mile.
R.H:
Did you find it hard in the winter?
A.V:
Well when you're young you don't mind those things. Yeah we'd
plow through the snow, and then they wouldn't allow us to go through
the railroad tracks for a while there. The authorities stopped it.
They thought it was too dangerous because it was a railroad town
and it was a busy area, so we would have to go round by the boulevard
and up that way.
R.H:
A. V:
I
..
guess there was a lot of trains running . ?
Yeah Fort Erie was predominantly a railroad town, and it was a
busy section there.
R.H:
A.V:
Do you remember your teachers, their names?
Some of my teachers? Well Miss Seaton herself was the principal,
Rose Seaton was the principal, and we had one man teacher in
there, Mr. McKay.
R.H:
Was that unusual to have a man?
A.V:
It was unusual in those days, yeah the rest of them were all ladies.
(3)
�Miss Carter who is still in town, she's Mrs. Harvey now, and...
R.H:
Was it a big school or was it a small school?
A.V:
It was the number one school I would say, early school you know.
R.H:
And from there you had to go to Wintemute?
A.V:
Over to Wintemute which was a smaller school but we only went
there for two years and then we would go in to high school. I think
they called it continuation school in those days.
R.H:
Yes I've heard that term, continuation. Did you have to take an
exam to go on?
A.V:
No it was just a general transfer.
R.H:
Oh there were no tests or anything?
A.V:
Well you took exams each year to go from one grade to the next,
but to go from one school to the next y ou didn't take any, that was
just a normal thing . If you passed the previous school y ou were
in y ou just went on to Wintemute, and then from there of course
if y ou passed y ou went to high school.
R.H:
So then y ou went to... what church did y our family go to?
A.V:
St. Michael's, they went to St. Michael's Chu rch on Gilmore Road.
R.H:
I
see, and that was on Gilmore Road at that time, and who was
the priest?
A.V:
Well the first priest
I
remember was Father Cullinane, a short jolly
Irishman who used to play touch-rugby on the front lawn.
R.H:
That is football isn't it?
A.V:
Yeah that is football, but we called it rugby in those days. Oh he'd
be still in his robes and he'd be flying
around there, I
can remember
that, it was quite a bit of fun.
R.H:
Did you play hockey?
A.V:
No I didn't play hockey as I have a bad leg, but I played football
for the high school, and I played baseball, and fastball.
R.H:
Do you remember the names of any your teams?
A. V:
Well when I was working at Fleet we played for a team called Industrial
Foods and we won the Ontario championship in, I think it was 1944.
Then we beat out...
R.H:
Was that baseball?
A. V:
That was what we called fastball. It was like say softball, but it
was a faster paced game. Yeah we played off in Fort Erie against
(
a team from Saute St. Marie, and we had about 3,000 people there
(4)
�in the stands.
R.H:
Where did you play, where did this take place?
A.V:
At Oakes Park.
R.H:
Oakes Park, and there was that many people there?
A.V:
Oh yeah they filled the place up.
R.H:
Was that normal?
A.V:
(
No, this was for the Ontario playoffs, but we played all year to
good crowds. We were
a
little better than average naturally because
we won the Ontario title. Some of the fellows
that
played
on that team.
Russ, and... I
can' t...and
on that team, and
I
are
still
in
town
Al Reid is still here in town, and Rusty
Heber Lake, Heber Lake he was the pitcher
was catcher.
R.H:
So you've had a lot of sports around here then?
A.V:
Oh yeah, its always been a good sports town.
It has turned out
some good hockey players this town that have gone on.
The Reid
boys, and Pierre Pilote, 1'1cMann, and Rom bough's, there's quite
a few of them that have made it up in the majors ... the Zimmerman's.
R.H:
(
What about ...you didn't skate at all then?
A.V:
Well I skated in public school, which w as Rose Seaton school, and
after that I did a little public skating but my leg wasn't strong enough
to do any more than that.
R.H:
But wasn't that quite the thing to make the ice-rinks in the wintertime?
A. V:
Oh yeah the Fire Department used to come around and flood them
in your backyards.
They used to help you out and flood 'cause they
had the hoses and the water. If you had a rink they'd stop by and
flood it, and they used to flood all the school rinks.
R�H:
Why di d
A. V:
I don't know.
R.H:
You don't know any reason for it?
A.V:
I don't think they do it any more. My grandchildren skate on my
that stop?
swimming pool now when it freezes over.
R.H:
Did your family have a telephone when you were growing up, do
you remember?
A.V:
No I don't remember, not when I was young. Of course we had a
radio that was Welland County Telephone, and... yeah we had one,
(
we had a telephone, but I can't remember the number of it.
R.H:
Did anyone else use it, like neighbours, was it sort of shared?
(5)
�A.V:
Yeah they were shared and they were party lines, and if you had
one and the neighbours didn't, then someone would call you and
then you would have to go and get the neighbour. That was quite
(
common in those days.
R.H:
And you had to get the operator?
A.V:
You had to crank, oh yeah and get the operator, and her name was
Ollie Bauer.
R.H:
Ollie Bauer, that was her name?
A.V:
Yeah you had a conversation with her every time you phoned up.
She was the operator for years.
R.H:
Now there was no television when you were a child,
wha t abou t
r a dio?
A.V:
Well I c an remember a crys tal set in our house.
R.H:
Was tha t
A.V:
Radio?
a
big part of your life?
yeah we would sit around tha t of course and listen to Amos
and Andy, and also Fibber McGee and Molly, and if you had a strong
enough set you could ca tch the hockey games out of Toronto.
R.H:
A.V:
(
Was the boxing broadcast?
Yeah there w as boxing bouts in those old days.
Well I guess you
would listen to Joe Louis fights in those days.
R.H:
Yeah I guess the radio was very popular then?
A.V:
Oh yeah you had to have a radio.
of ours but
I think
We had a . .I forget the name
.
it w as the Silver Swan, the old cabinet type.
R.H:
What about c ars... did your family ever ge t a car?
A.V:
Yeah, we had a
it a Whippet.
had
o ne
1927
Whippet, a Willy's Overland, and they called
There weren't very many cars in town,
in 1927, and Mr. Baker, ( who had
Fyte's
and
m y d ad
store across the
street. It was a candy store, a cigar store, and magazines ) he had
one also. They were the only two I remember in town of that type
of car and as a matter of fact it was quite comical, my dad drove
it... he ran it through the fence in the backyard, and never drove
it again. My older brother inherited it then.
R.H:
He didn't have a license?
A. V:
Oh yeah, but he didn't like driving cars, and I don't ever remember
him driving it again, but my older brother drove it from then on.
On our trips to Buffalo every sunday we'd take eggs and all kinds
(
of vegetables and fruits over to his other brothers who didn't do
(6)
�quite as well as he did in business so we carted groceries over.
(
R.H:
How long was your father in that business?
A.V:
I was about fifteen when he took sick, so I woul say .. .let's see 1909 ...
Oh, he had to be there 35 years. I remember he rented it out for
a year or so but it didn't work out and then the building was sold.
R.H:
He owned the whole building?
A.V:
He owned the building, yeah.
R.H:
What is there now?
A.V:
Niagara Falls Evening Review is there now. The place next door
is all knocked down that had the fruit store and the barbershop,
and Glenny's have that. Glenny's Travel Agency and Insurance Company
are there.
R.H:
What about the Bellard Theatre,
A.V:
Well, the Bellard Theatre was built by the Ziff family, and they
did
you go there?
were quite a large family, and as most people know the name Bellard
was taken from the first letter of each child's name, Barney, Evelyn,
Louis, and Laurie, and so on.
R.H:
(
And
A.V:
Oh yeah, I went there most Saturdays.
you went there?
It was ten cents to get in
to see Matinee's and the seriels that continued on from one Saturday
to the next.
R.H:
Cliffhangers you called them, is that what they were called?
A.V:
Yeah, cliffhangers.
R.H:
And
A.V:
Every week, yeah. There would be Buck Jones, and cowboys, and
every week t he y
would
h ave them?
all those... Tom Mix, all those oldtimers.
R.H:
You mentioned that they had a violin player, who was that?
A. V:
Yeah, they used to have a violin player that played music there,
and I can remember his name. His name was John LaPresti, and
his family lived on Jarvis Street in an apartment, and he used to
play the violin in there, for music on Saturdays.
R.H:
Did he play for every movie?
A.V:
Well, I dont know. At that time we went on Saturdays, to the matinee's,
Was it just for sad movies?
and I can remember him playing the violin in there then.
R.H:
How much did it cost you to get in at that time?
A. V:
Ten cents. If I shined enough shoes in my dad's store, I got a dime
(7)
�to go to the show.
R.H:
A.V:
Yeah, and I used to shine a lot of shoes.
R.H:
Did you work outside the store?
A.V:
(
You were a shoeshine boy?
Well I had a little box that I used to put stuff in, and I would go
out and shine a few shoes. We used to shine their socks sometimes
too 'cause I wasn't very good at it, and in fact one day Mike Tartaglia
and I decided we'd run away to Erie Beach and we took our shoeshine
box with us, but we came back the same day.
R.H:
You didn't make much money then?
A.V:
No
R.H:
Do you remember anybody
we didn't do too well.
did you have
A. V:
any
you shined shoes for, any of your clients1
steady clients?
No, well possibly some of the business men on Jarvis Street, because
in the store there was a shoeshine stand that you would climb up
on and put your feet up on the form, and you would shine them
there you see. Of course my brothers did the same thing.
R.H:
So that was how you got your pocket money or spending money?
A.V:
Yeah, oh yeah there wasn't too much money in town in those days.
(
I think the largest bill you would see would be a two dollar bill
and in fact, in my dad's shoe store on saturday nights, he would
be open until ten or eleven oclock as he did a lot of leather work
for the farmers.
He'd fix their harness's and so on, and when they
came in why they were more or less le aving a dozen eggs, or some
live chickens in a bag, or some potatoes.
That's the way they paid
for things.
R.H:
Yeah, because there wasn't much money then, and things
were
pretty
tough?
A.V:
Yeah things weren't that great, but people managed to survive by
helping each other.
R.H:
Did you have any other odd jobs as you were growing up?
A.V:
No, not in my younger days. No I just hung around the shoe store
and helped out. Well most kids tried to get a paper route, and I
had a paper route. I delivered the old Buffalo Times which was
a pink edition, which went out of business
R.H:
(
It was pink?
A.V:
Yeah the Evening Times always had a pink cover sheet on it. Their
front page was pink.
(8)
�R.H:
Where did you pick your papers up, did they bring them to you?
A.V:
Well they brought them to us in a bundle much like they do now,
·� ·- � ,�
and then we'd take them apart and deliver them, and we probably
(
had twenty customers or so.
R.H:
Do you remember when they paved Jarvis Street?
Have you any
idea?
A.V:
No, I don't really know when they paved it. It seems to me all of
a sudden it was paved. I can't remember the time, but it was a
brick road before that. In the winter it would freeze over, and
of course we didn't have the system for clearing snow in those days,
and we would skate on that. We would skate from Central Avenue
right down to the boulevard.
R.H:
How
A.V:
Jus t m anpower, shovels and stuff. ..ye ah
did
they clear t he
snow?
manu all y
.
Because even
the Fire Department which was around the corner from us, they
didn't h ave any mechanized e quipment, they h ad horses.
R.H:
Did they have horses, you remember that?
A.V:
Yeah I can remember the horses.
The Benners owned the horses,
the people tha t o wned the coal company.
(
R.H:
So they h ad the horse and wagon, the Fire Depar tment?
Was it
still volunteer?
A.V:
I t's always been volunteer.
R.H:
Did you go to Erie Beach with your family?
A.V:
Yeah we went to Erie Beach, and it w as quite
in
fact people say
it
was nicer than
Crys t al
an
amusemen t park,
Beach.
Crystal Beach
was built after Erie Beach, in fact my mother and father had their
honeymoon day at Erie Beach. There used to be a little train that
run up along there.
R.H:
I was going to ask you, how did you travel to Erie Beach?
A.V:
Well you either walked, or if you were lucky enough to have a car,
you drove, but most people went by train. There was a train that
ran to Erie Beach.
R.H:
Was there a bus that went? Somebody mentioned that there was
a bus that you picked up, was there?
A.V:
There could have been, but I don't remember.
R.H:
You don't remember, but of course there was the train, was that
the Sandfly, or the Pegleg?
(9)
�A.V:
There was the Pegleg .. .I wouldn't be sure but it seems to me that
the Pegleg might be it. I'm not too sure of that though.
(
R.H:
Have you heard of the Peanuts Special or the Peanut Express, have
you ever heard of that?
A.V:
No I never heard of that one.
R.H:
Oh that used to go up to Erie Beach, and they ate peanuts all the
way up, and they threw the shells all over the train so they called
it the Peanut Express.
R.H:
What did you do there? Was there a lot of rides?
A.V:
Oh yeah, there were rides, and they had a great beach for swimming
there. It was super and only the walls are still standing there, and
they
h ad
a large Dancehall and Pavillion which we used later in
life. You know we even used that a couple of times
war
during
the
years for d ances, but the rides and amusements tha t were there
were the usual things .. . the Merry-go-round, and so on and the c andy
makers.
It w as more or less a different type of amusement park
than Crys tal Beach pu t in.
Crys tal Beach went more modern and
so on.
R.H:
A.V:
Well it was more for picnics and groups.
R.H:
And the rides, do you remember any of the rides?
A.V:
(
Was this more family type?
Not really, I can remember the Merry-go-round, and that type of
thing but when we went there it was mostly for picnics.
R.H:
When you lived on Jarvis S treet was there
wagons. .. was there a
A.V:
a
lot of horse and buggy. . .like
milk delivery?
Yeah there was milk deliveries, and they were horse and wagon,
and on faturdays you would see horse and wagons when the farmers
came in to town.
R.H:
And they brought their goods in?
A.V:
They brought their goods in, yeah.
R.H:
Did you have milk delivery?
A.V:
Yes we had milk delivery, and ours had a little cardboard top on
it.
R.H:
A.V:
Well the original dairy ... no I can't, I can remember Everett's.
R.H:
(
You don't remember who the dairy was, could you... ?
Everett's Dairy?
A.V:
Everett's Dairy but I don't remember if they delivered or not.
R.H:
Did you ever hear of the Crown Theatre?
(10)
�A.V:
(
The Crown Theatre, no.
R.H:
So you said you went to Erie Beach when you were more of an adult,
did you go there for the dancing?
A.V:
No, we had dances there, we had a couple of them, and we used
to have them through Fleet, the company I worked for.
R.H:
And when did you start working at Fleet?
A.V:
In
1940,
in the fall.
R.H:
In
1940,
and you were how old?
A.V:
Nineteen.
R.H :
And that was more or less just the beginning of the war, wasn't it?
A.V:
Yeah
R.H:
So what did you do there?
A.V:
I worked in the Shipping and Storage Depa rtme nt, and then I moved
.
up into the office for a few years and then I stayed there.
R.H:
And did you make a lot of parts for airplanes?
A.V:
Oh yeah, when I first went there we were building trainer planes,
Fleet Finches, and then we also built fusilages for the Hampton
Bombers, and wings for the Lancaster Bomber, and we assembled
Fairey Battleships there which ... Fairey Battle was a bomber, a light
(
bomber plane, and then when we really started in to making trainer
planes there was the Fleet Cornell, and we built a few thousand
of those as a trainer plane.
R.H:
Did women work at Fleet at all?
A.V:
O h yeah there was quite a few women.
R.H:
Thi s was because of the men goi ng off to war?
A.V:
Yeah.
be
50
We probably had
3,000
people at peak, and oh there had to
percent women there 'cause they were housed in town.
The
hostels had a large group of them.
R.H:
Yeah there was a hostel o n
A.V:
Central , and that was strictly for ladies.
?
•.•
They were war-time workers.
They lived there, and the buses transported them to Fleet.
R.H:
So were these ladies
A.V:
Yeah, well quite a few of them came up from Quebec, and then
•••
they must have been from out of town then?
of course from outlaying areas in Ontario.
R.H:
(
So they did a man's jobs?
A.V:
Oh yeah, they welded
•••
they were welders, machinists, store-keepers ,
( 1 1)
�assembly workers, and riveters.
R.H:
(
Did they get paid the same as a man would then?
A.V:
I would say so, yeah it would be the same wage, and they were good
too, as good and better than some of the men.
R.H:
A.V:
Is that right, so they could handle the job?
Yeah, maybe not the physical type roles, but when it came to riveting,
and welding, and machine work, they were as good as anybody and
still are.
R.H:
So Fleet was really one of the biggest industries around here?
A. V:
Oh yeah I think it was the primary industry in the Niagara Penninsula
during
the war years. They still maintain a force
of
750 out there
now.
R.H:
And how was ... did it effect the economy as far as... the war, did
it effect the economy of Fort Erie, was
A.V:
it
bet ter?
I would say so as there was so many more people here, and Fleet
used to be the thermometer for the economy.
If we were busy,
the econo my would be up, and if not it would be down.
We seemed
to be the gage for it.
R.H:
(
A.V:
What about rations, do you re member the rations a t that time?
. Well gasoline was rationed, and of course li quor and beer were also,
but I don' t remember much about food being rationed, but it seemed
there was plenty of it around all the time.
gasoline rationing and you had coupons .
The big thing here was
You were allowed so much
a week, or wha t ever it was to turn the coupons in.
R.H:
So nobody was doing too much driving I guess?
A.V:
No,
b ut there w as alw ays places you could ge t
gas ol ine
if you
needed
a little extra.
R.H:
So there was a little blackmarket going on?
A.V:
Naturally, they are always around because I got some that way
myself. We had a:n old Model
A
Ford and we couldn't keep enough
gas.
R.H:
A.V:
Not really.
R.H:
You didn't have to pay extra?
A.V:
No maybe a little extra, but not twice as much.
R.H:
(
Did you pay twice as much for it that way?
How long did you work at Fleet?
A.V:
Forty four years.
(12)
�R.H:
Did they have a union?
A.V:
Well yeah, they've had unions from day one. When I was there it
(
was more or less a company union. Starting out, there was twelve
FA WA which is Fleet Aircraft Workers Association, and I don't
think they were affiliated with anyone, but they had their own group
and lodged their complaints and so on through that, and from then
it went on to the International Associations of Machinists and Aerospace
Workers which they have now.
R.H:
But the conditions were pretty good then?
A.V:
Oh I thought the conditions were always good at Fleet, yeah.
R.H:
Do you remember how much
A. V:
When
I
first started
one cents
an
hour
you
made when you first started?
work there?
of course I
can
tell y ou,
twenty
.
R.H:
W as that a lo t then?
A.V:
Tha t was the star ting wage for unskilled help, which I was.
You
know they only jus t hired you as the war was on and if you h ad some
skills, like if you were a sheet-me tal worker, I think you star ted
at about thirty cents or thirty five, something like that.
But after
a few months they gave you another five cents, and you gradually
worked your way up.
R.H:
That was a big wage though?
A.V:
Yeah well in those d ays, sure.
We worked
60 hours a week during
the war years, six days, ten hours a day.
R.H:
During the war, and they were busy times and of course the o ther
industry was the
A. V:
Railroad?
The Railroad was a busy industry,
yeah
this was a border town,
and you had spin-offs even in the Railroad 'cause the customs and
the immigration were strong outfits. They had a lot of people 'cause
there was a bridge, and ferry-boats, and trains.
R.H:
Do you remember when the Central Avenue Bridge was built?
A.V:
I don't remember the year exactly, but that's fairly modern.
R.H:
But you remember it being built?
A.V:
Yeah, that was fairly modern, and that was during Herb Guess's
days, I guess he pretty well was on the...
R.H:
Was he the mayor?
A.V:
He was the mayor I think in those days. He was a real old time
politician in Fort Erie.
(13)
�R.H:
And did that help ... ?
A.V:
And that kind of joined the two ends together, a lot easier because
(
everyone had to travel along Niagara Boulevard there.
R.H:
Do you remember anything about the Southend, did you go down
to the baby-hole, did you ever go down there?
A.V:
Not too often. We did our s wimming in the Northend of town around
the Williams dock right at the bottom of Bowen Road.
R.H:
Williams dock?
A.V:
Yeah back there, and also at the Pump House, the old Pump House
at the bottom of Lewis Street there. The building is still there,
and I think the skin-divers use it for underwater teams.
a lot of s wi mming
there, and them we
swam all along
We
did
the river
'cause there was boat-houses and docks all along from Northend
to Southend.
We swam when we felt like i t.
R.H:
But you never got to the Southend very much excep t for the ferry-boa ts?
A.V:
We did occasionally...we used to pull a caper at the ferry-boa ts.
We would p ay our five cents and then we'd would jump off in the
middle of the river, and swim b ack to Canada.
the Southend to the Northend.
(
We'd swim from
We'd swim ou t in the middle of the
river and the current would take us back, and we would go underneath
the International Bridge and come all the way down by Williams
dock.
But there weren't many boa ts on the river in those d ays,
so it wasn' t as d angerous as you'd think.
R.H:
Did you go to Sullivan's?
A.V:
Sullivan's Fish and Chips, oh yeah.
of ours, in fac t
if
there
Well Charlie is still a good friend
was not enough seating he would
le t us
eat in his kitchen upstairs. Just a select few of us. I remember
Rusty Russ and myself would go down there every friday for fish
and chips.
R.H:
A lot of people went there, and it is still there right?
A.V:
It's still there and he just keeps it. He's a widower now, his wife
passed away.
R.H:
Do you remember what any of the ferry-boats looked like when
you were on them as a kid?
A.V:
Well they were all paddle-wheelers. They had a paddle wheel on
the backend of them, and as kids we used to go over on them any
(
day, mostly a sunday. We'd go to the Theatre over there.
R.H:
Over in Buffalo?
(14)
�A.V:
R.H:
(
A.V:
Yeah, we would go to the theatre over there on sundays.
What was the name of that, can you remember?
What the boat? The theatre? Well there's was one called the Rialto,
and that's the one we would go to, and I think the other one was
the Victoria or something like that. We would buy a dozen doughnuts
and come back on the boat.
R.H:
A.V:
They were pretty big were they, the boats?
Oh yeah they drove cars on them, (I forget how many cars) and
the cars were on the bottom.
R.H:
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
And then the passengers were
up
on top?
And passengers up on to p.
Did you know any of the skippers a t all, or get to know their names?
No, no I didn't know them at all or who they were, but they ran
two boa ts at the same time you know at some t.ime or another,
and I think they got down to one eventually, but they used to run
two and they'd pass one another, one would be docking and the other
would be passing.
R.H:
A.V:
(
Did they run in the winter at all, do you know if they ran in the wintertime?
Well I can't remember too much about wintertime but I do remember
one got away somehow.
There w as a malfunction in it, and it w as
going to hit the In ternational Bridge in the Northend as it w as drifting
down.
R.H:
A.V:
I was jus t wondering if it w as jus t a seasonal thing?
Yeah I would say it would be seasonal, I would guess at tha t.
river used to get pretty clogged up with ice.
boat a cro ss
R.H:
A.V:
That
You couldn't run a
there.
Do you know any stories about
the
booze smuggling?
Well they used to... the rum-runners, well I used to hear a few things
that they ran it across, no doubt about that, and there was rum-running
going on, and if the coast guard were on the ball and chased them
they would just dump all their booze overboard. For years the local
fellows would dive for the bottles out there and bring them up.
R.H:
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
They found them?
Sure there's still bottles out there if you want to go after them?
Where exactly was the rum-running docks?
Well most of it... well they were in the Northend of town, down
around the bottom of Phipps Street, and Dufferin Street in that
area.
(15)
�R.H:
A.V:
(
So that's where they took off from?
Yeah there was a lot of rum-running going on I'll tell you, in fact
there was a fellow in town named Smith who was diving for these
bottles for years. What they used to do, they would go out in the
boat and they cradled a large rock in their stomache with their
arms, and they'd just fall overboard. The weight would take them
down you see 'cause it's pretty hard to dive down that deep. The
rock would take them down and they would get the whiskey, but
they also smuggled people.
R.H:
A. V:
Yeah wasnt' that the Chinese people?
I thi nk a lot of that wasn't very fair because they'd think they were
in the Un,ited S ta tes, and
they
h ad
jus t run them up
th rough another
Canadian si te and dro pped them o ff.
R.H:
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
And you didn't go to the Crystal Beach Ballroom?
Oh yeah during the war years?
Wha t w as it like there?
Oh it was a beau tiful ballroom.
It was internationally known as
they brought all the big bands in, and we'd go to all the d ances up
there.
(
R.H:
A.V:
Of course they danced every nigh t .
Do you remember the names of any of the bands?
Yeah, who was that? ... let's see now. . .you know that band tha t had
the Everly Bro thers with them in those d ays, and oh wha t's her
name? . . . she sang Green Eyes . . .
R.H:
It w asn' t the Tommy Dorsey Band, was i t?
Wasn' t there big bands
there?
A. V:
Yeah,
oh yeah
those
big bands were there.
Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller,
I'm
They were
on the
circuit.
sure he was. I can't remember
some of the names.
R.H:
But it was a really nice ballroom?
A. V:
Oh it was a beautiful ballroom.
R.H:
A. V:
Was it large too?
Very large.
R.H:
And that's where Fleet held all their dances?
A.V:
No no, we held them at Erie Beach, a few of them at Erie Beach
during the war years. The place wasn't running but the Dancehall
was still there.
(
R.H:
A.V:
When did Crystal Beach start?
Well I don't know the year Crystal Beach started, but it was built
(16)
�by the Hall Brothers of course after Erie Beach kind of went into
oblivion.
(
R.H:
And they didn't sell liquor in the ballroom then, did they?
A.V:
No.
R.H:
It was more just soft drinks?
A.V:
Yeah and dancing.
R.H:
And the ballroom was right in the . ?
A.V:
Right in the park. I think you paid a nickel or a dime to dance.
..
They had a rope system, and as the music ended there would be a
couple of fellows with a rope who would just go across the dance
floor, and all those people would go off, and new people would be
coming on, or else you went around and got in line again and gave
them another ticket.
R.H:
A. V:
R.H:
A.V:
R.H:
A.V:
'
(
Was there tables to sit down?
No, no tables.
So you couldn' t sit?
No
I
don' t remember tables.
Did they have any place where you could h ave a drink or anything?
Well right outside of course w as the complete amusement park.
You could go in and dance or no t d ance, you could sui t yourself, you
could jus t watch.
You could go outside or go back in a few minutes
la ter, or an hour later, 'cause the d ancing went on all night.
R.H:
A.V:
Oh
see, so it wasn' t like you had to stay there?
No, there
You
R.H:
I
wasn't an admission
paid by
charge, there was a d ance charge.
the dance.
By the dance, oh! Is that why they
call
it ten cents a dance?
A. V:
That's probably it, maybe that was it, could be.
R.H:
So you paid for each dance, how did you do that?
A.V:
You bought tickets, say three for a quarter, and you could have three
dances.
R.H:
And who took the tickets?
A.V:
There was a little booth there, whatever you call it with a fellow,
and as you went on the floor you gave him a ticket.
R.H:
Did you ever sneak in without paying?
A. V:
No I didn't, but I'm sure people did. Well they've changed their format
since, they do it much differently now.
(
R.H:
Do you know anything about the Racetrack?
(17)
�A.V:
Well a little bit.
Before I went to work at Fleet I parked cars up
there.
(
R.H:
You worked there, did you?
A.V:
Yeah, and they used to race for just one week.
One week's racing
and then they would go away and come back for another week.
They would go down to Stamford or Hamilton 'cause they had racetracks
there, but it was two weeks of racing and then it was split.
R.H:
How old were you then?
A.V:
Seventeen or eighteen, when I worked in the parking lot.
R.H:
What did you get paid there, do you remember what you made at
all?
A.V:
Yeah I think it was a dollar and a half a day or something like that.
R.H:
What was it like there, was it nice?
I
A.V:
Yeah it was very nice.
R.H:
Did you ever get the chance to see any of the races at all?
A.V:
Oh yeah, we'd get in there once in a while, and then I worked in
the clubhouse for one year, just on saturdays, and we'd see the races
then.
R.H:
What did you do in the clubhouse?
A.V:
I was working in the beverage room.
R.H:
How was the betting system then, did you take notice of anything
like that?
A.V:
No I didn't but I'm pretty sure it was much the same.
They had
wickets of course...
R.H:
They didn't have bookies there at all?
A.V:
No, no no, you bet through their mutual system which was controlled
by the jockey club.
R.H:
I know I've been where they've had the bookies, and I've seen the
bookies right on the track.
A.V:
Well they do that in the old country, but they don't do that here.
R.H:
They don't do that here?
A.V:
Yeah it was all tickets here, and you gave them your two dollars
So it was tickets at the windows?
or whatever you wanted to bet, and they gave you a ticket back
on that number, on that race, and that horse.
You cashed them
at a different wicket.
R.H :
(
So it was more or less the same system?
A.V:
The same system but much more modernized.
It's all computerized
now, it's machines, and you just punch it in now.
(18)
�R.H:
A.V:
(
Did you ever see the Prince of Wales Stakes?
No, but I'm going to see it this week.
I'm going to see the one coming
�R.H:
So it's a nice Racetrack?
A.V:
Oh it's a very nice Racetrack.
Right now it's very pretty, it's one
of the prettiest in North America, and we like to go out once or
twice a year.
R.H:
How long did you work there?
A.V:
Just the one summer.
R.H:
Just the one summer, did you like it there?
A.V:
Oh I enjoyed it, and it was a good way to get up some extra money.
R.H:
Did you get any ti ps ?
A.V:
Oh yeah that's what we counted on, 'cause the wages weren't very
much.
In the beverage room they paid us two dollars for the day.
We didn't count on that at all, we counted on the tips 'caus� in those
days a bottle of beer was
21 cents for a bottle so you would pick
up the extra change.
R.H:
So maybe they'd give you
A.V:
Sometimes if there was four of them at the table they'd give you
(
30 cents. . . ?
a dollar and you'd pick the difference up,
give that back.
16 cents.
You wouldn't
You know after the races or in between races is
when they are in there drinking, and then they're gone.
It's hard
to get those people back, there are so many people there.
R.H:
Was there still a lot of people then, was there a lot of Americans?
A.V:
Predominantly Americans, but then of course they ran the buses
and the train from Toronto, and Hamilton, and there was quite a
few Canadians.
But predominantly Western New York bettors,
'cause there aren't any races in Buffalo except the trotters.
R.H:
So that was quite a big part of Fort Erie too then?
A.V:
The Racetrack?
Oh yeah it hired a lot of Fort Erie people.
A lot
of local people worked there, and still do.
R.H:
What was the other industries that were around then?
A.V:
Well Horton Steel has been here for years, Hart and Cooley has
been here for years, and of course they closed up a year or so ago,
but that was a real old time factory and it had been here since the
thirties.
(
It made registers for furnaces and so on.
was president of that company for years.
( 19)
My father-in-law
The Canadian Gasket
�Company has been there for years, that's another old time company,
and the Mentholatum Company, and Mr. Stratton ran that company
(
for years.
R.H:
Have you heard of the Mann Stratton Building?
A.V:
Yeah it's on Jarvis Street.
R.H:
That was on Jarvis Street then?
A.V:
Yeah we used to have dances up there.
R.H:
Oh did they, and was there offices in there or business's?
A.V:
Yeah there was a. . . . I think the Knox Company were in there which
was a mail-order pill-type business.
They were up in there.
R.H:
Was the Post-Office in there at one time?
A.V:
They could have been, but I don't remember.
R.H:
And what about these bowling alleys, there was bowlings alleys
right?
A.V:
Well there was a couple of alleys on Jarvis Street at one time, and
the Heckman family had those along with the barbershop, and the
poolroom.
R.H:
A.V:
(
And you went to the poolroom, did you?
Oh yeah, we played a lot of pool there, and most of us grew up there,
and if you lived on Jarvis Street you eventually played pool.
R.H:
What did you pay for a game?
A.V:
I can't remember but it might have been ten or fifteen cents.
That
was the Heckman poolroom and there was another one down the
street o wned by Jiggs Cline,
was much smaller.
(his
name was Aubrey Cline ) but it
He only had t wo tables in there and he had a
tobacco store with it.
R.H:
Is there anybody who was a great pool shark, a great pool player?
A.V:
Oh yes my brother Rass was.
R.H:
Was he?
A. V:
Yeah they played snooker a lot, and they played skittle pool which
.o did you have bets at all?
was what they gambled a little bit on.
But there was some great
games down there with fellows like Jim Hall, Rass Valvo,
and Denny Burke, and there used to a fellow named Chase, F rank
Chase played a lot.
R.H:
They were all good pool-players.
Did people come to watch these guys do their thing against one
another?
(
A.V:
It wouldn't be that big a competition, but there would be onlookers.
(20)
�They knew they'd be playing every afternoon, and they'd be in there
(
watching.
I'd be one of them.
R.H:
How long could a game go on?
A.V:
Well if you were lucky enough you know, and some people made
your ball in hurry, it could last a minute or two, otherwise it could
go on five or six minutes..
·-�·�
R.H:
So that was quite a place?
A.V:
Oh yeah that was quite a place, Aubrey Cline's for people and skittle
pool.
R.H:
That's were you hung out, right?
A.V:
Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of fellows.
R.H:
Do you know anything about the hotels that were there, like the
Bucket or the Gr and Trunk?
A.V:
Well the Grand Trunk was owned by the Primo family in those days
way back then, and it was quite popular especially on saturdays.
I think they served spagetti dinners and some beer with it for about
25 cents. It was a real popular place the Grand Trunk, and then
of course in the Northend we had the.. .we nicknamed it the Bucket,
(
but it was the old Spain's Hotel.
R.H:
That's what I was going to ask you, was it called the Spain's Hotel?
A.V:
It was Spain's Hotel and after that the Merview, and now it's the
Drake I guess.
What is it, the New Drake now?
Something like
that.
R.H:
And the King Edward, has that been there a long time?
A.V:
Yeah that's been there for years, the King Eddy in the Southend,
and of course another one was the Erie Lane, that's been there a
long time too.
I don't know what they call it anymore, Erie Lane,
Grammy's?
R.H:
There's quite a lot of hotels too, isn't there?
A.V:
Yeah they always said there was hotels and churches in town
bootleggers.
and
.••
There was a lot of those in the old days because the
hotels hours weren't very long.
They used to close at ten at night,
and they used to close for the supper before that.
R.H:
A.V:
(
Were they allowed to sell booze on a sunday?
No.
R.H:
So it wasn't open sundays either then?
And they closed saturday
nights at ten?
A.V:
Yeah they opened at eight and closed at ten.
(2 1)
�R.H:
A.V:
(
Was that eight in the evening?
I think so.
They used to close at six till eight for the supper hour,
and then they would be open until ten.
R.H:
So they more or less closed down for the supper, and after the supper
it was back to the drinking?
A.V:
And then it was drinking again, and it was all beer in those days,
they didn't''1lave liquor licenses.
R.H:
Oh they didn't have liquor licenses, so the reason the bootlegging
still went on was because people wanted to drink. . . ?
A.V:
Because of the hour, sure, at ten oclock people didn't want to quit
drinking.
R.H:
You're just getting sta rted, r ight?
A.V:
Well, even if you're at a dance or something and the dance wouldn't
be over, and say it was over at ten or eleven, you'd find a bootlegger
after that.
Crystal Beach had a lot of them, and so did Fort Erie.
I think all towns did.
R.H:
Did you have to know somebody who knew somebody else to get
this stuff?
A.V:
(
Yeah usually, but you could always get in for a bottle of beer.
R.H:
What do you mean, you got in for a bottle of beer, you went in there
and dran k it?
A.V:
Yeah, y o u sat at their table and drank it.
R.H:
Oh I see, was it like a house?
A.V:
Oh yeah they were houses, and the odd hotel would serve you a
beer after hours too.
R.H:
But mostly it was houses?
A.V:
Private homes, and they were makin g a little extra money selling
beer or wine.
R.H:
Did they make it at all?
A.V:
Oh no this would be regular beer from the beer store.
A lot of it
would be home-made· wine though if you drank wine.
R.H:
Did you ever have to go there and give a name or anything?
A.V:
No.
R.H:
No,dt wasn't like the movies?
A.V:
No you'd j ust knock on the door get in.
R.H:
Getti�back to when you were a kid, did you have a fridge?
A.V:
No we had an ice-box.
(22)
�R.H:
A.V:
Ice was delivered, yeah.
R.H:
Do you know who delivered that, who was the ice-man?
A.V:
(
Ice was delivered too?
I'm not sure, but there was a Lewis's Coal
the coal trucks you know.
. • •
it usually went with
It seemed to be they delivered coal
R.H:
Did you get your heat from coal?
A.V:
Yeah, oh yeah.
R.H:
So what did you have, fireplaces?
A.V:
No a stove or heaters I guess they called them.
R.H:
You had coal delivered?
A.V:
Yeah coal would be delivered b y Benner's Coal Company
R.H:
And that was the horse and buggy?
A.V:
They had tr ucks , Benner ' s Coal.
R .H:
Was the coal ever scarce at all ?
A.V:
It didn't seem like it, there seemed to be always enough coal.
•.•
.
We
burned hard coal, and we called it blue coal I think 'cause it gave
a blue flame.
R.H:
So when you got up in the morning before you went to school you
had to.. . ?
{
A.V:
Well we tried to bank the fire so as there would be a little fire through
the night but I wasn't very good at it.
My brother did all that.
R.H:
So it was cold when you got up in the morning, wasn't it ?
A.V:
Oh yeah, I think that's why we had t wo or three in the bed through
the night.
R.H:
Yeah ?
Did you wear your clothes too sometimes ?
A.V:
I used to wear my socks, and they used to use hot water bottles
in those days.
R.H:
Were they the glass ones, the ceramic
A.V:
Well I can remember rubber ones also.
R.H:
Do you remember the cures you mother use to have?
. ••
I guess they would be ceramic?
When you
were sick do you remember what she did for you?
A.V:
I can remember some of them because we were
•••
origin they were the European type.
well being of Italian
They hung a piece of garlic
around your neck if you were going to catch a cold you know, and
I guess the idea was i f you breathed those garlic fumes i t would
keep everything away.
(
Besides the cold it would keep people away
too.
R.H:
Ours was dirty socks.
So you got this garlic hung around your neck?
(23)
�AoV:
R.H:
(
Yeah things like that.
I can't remember all of them.
I just wondered if you remembered what she did when you got sick?
A.V:
Well we all got chicken soup, you'd get a lot of that when you were
sick.
R.H:
Do you remember the doctors at all?
A.V:
Oh yeah, Doctor Mencke is the oldest one I remember and of course
Dr. Douglas started the hospital up here.
doctor, then Dr. Collins.
Dr. Mencke was our family
They were the real old-timers here.
R.H:
Were they all on Jarvis too?
A.V:
Dr . Mencke was, and Dr. Collins was around the corner there just
on Central.
R. H:
But there was no hospital then?
A.V:
Not when I was b orn
R.H:
You were born at home, were you?
A.V:
Yeah.
R.H:
I guess when you g ot sick, where did they take you?
A.V:
Buffalo, we would go to Buffalo .
R.H:
They had s ome nursing homes o r s omething.. . they were maternity
.
homes I believe that did s ome min or operations in them?
(
A.V:
I'm not sure of that.
R.H:
So you never had any problems where you had to go for tonsils or
anything like that?
A.V:
Myself?
for that.
Oh yeah , I had polio when I was young, and I had treatments
My mother used to bring a blind lady in to massage me
with cocoa butter which helped a lot.
R.H:
Did she come every day?
A.V:
It seems like it , I was real young and I think it was the Sister Kenny
method they used.
They would just massage.
R.H:
And that was an old sort of theory , wasn't it?
A.V:
I think so, just massage with cocoa butter and
R.H:
And she did that almost every day, do you remember who she was?
A.V:
No
•••
.••
no I don't really, but we all had those childrens diseases like
measles and so on, but I don't know what they did for surgery in
those days if the hospital wasn't here.
I'm sure they took them
to Buffalo or Niagara Falls or something like that, close by.
R.H:
(
I know they did a few minor surgeries in these maternity homes,
and they did it there in the kitchen, and I wondered if anyone in
the family had experienced something like that?
(24)
�A.V:
R:l!:
(
Well w e were iortunate- lha'!: w ay.
Well I think I've covered j ust about all ... un
1ess theie anytn
"'s
1ng ycra
can think of ?
A.V:
No. you've done a good job.
R.H:
I have?
A.V:
Yeah I think so.
R.H:
I'd like to thank you for the interview, I think you're just great and
thankyou.
I appreciate i t .
A.V:
So did I, I enjoyed it very much.
R.H:
I appreciate it very much.
(
(
(25 )
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Crystal Beach
Subject
The topic of the resource
Crystal Beach, Ontario
Description
An account of the resource
Select historical photos and documents digitized from the Fort Erie local history and Louis McDermott collections
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
FEPL -LH - Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fort Erie Public Library and Louis McDermott
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Rose Hearn
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Albert Valvo
Location
The location of the interview.
Mr. Valvo's home at 272 North Street, Fort Erie
Original Format
If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oral History - Albert, Valvo
Description
An account of the resource
Provided here is Albert Valvo's interview. He discusses such topics as:
North end
Stores
Schools
Sports
Technology
Transportation
Recreation
Erie Beach
Crystal Beach Amusement Park
Fleet
Factories and industry
Buffalo
Ferries
Bootlegging
Race Track
Post Office
Hotels and taverns
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Fort Erie Public Library Local History Collection
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
August 6, 1985
1980s
1985
Buffalo
Crystal Beach amusement park
Erie Beach
factories and industry
ferries
Fleet
Fort Erie
hotels and taverns
north end
Oral history
post office
racetrack
recreation
restaurants and bars
schools
sports
technology
transcripts
transportation